Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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1. I gave up coffee 10 years ago.
2. I've eaten enough chocolate to cover me for several eternal lives, lol.
3. I like cats, but (don't hate me for this) I'm not crazy about orange tabbies.
Can I be saved?
2. I've eaten enough chocolate to cover me for several eternal lives, lol.
3. I like cats, but (don't hate me for this) I'm not crazy about orange tabbies.
Can I be saved?
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A born again believer can be self-righteous too.....if you read the passage on lukewarm believers in Revelations you see that is exactly who they are.
Sorry if it seems I am picking on you @Lightskin ...... Rest assured I am not a male chauvinist.
Sorry if it seems I am picking on you @Lightskin ...... Rest assured I am not a male chauvinist.
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Yes of course, a born again person remains justified apart from all good works performed.
In objective reality the cross can not be nullified.... It is those who preach against and do not accept the completed work of cross by infusing human effort into the equation that nullify it ...but only in their false perception.
Do you see what I mean?
There is the subjective and the truth/reality.
And those that nullify the cross by their false dogma have not yet come to truth.
In objective reality the cross can not be nullified.... It is those who preach against and do not accept the completed work of cross by infusing human effort into the equation that nullify it ...but only in their false perception.
Do you see what I mean?
There is the subjective and the truth/reality.
And those that nullify the cross by their false dogma have not yet come to truth.
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God does the justifying, of course. He gives it through one's faith in his offer of forgiveness.
If a person no longer has faith in that offer he can't have it anymore because justification is conditional on trusting in Christ. Of course some will argue that if you walk away from the free offer of forgiveness you never really had it in the first place. Which means the Galatians were never really justified to begin with since they turned away from Christ and to the law for justification. But the problem with that argument is Paul makes it very clear that they were very much saved.
Once saved always saved is a very difficult doctrine to reconcile with the whole counsel of the Bible.
If a person no longer has faith in that offer he can't have it anymore because justification is conditional on trusting in Christ. Of course some will argue that if you walk away from the free offer of forgiveness you never really had it in the first place. Which means the Galatians were never really justified to begin with since they turned away from Christ and to the law for justification. But the problem with that argument is Paul makes it very clear that they were very much saved.
Once saved always saved is a very difficult doctrine to reconcile with the whole counsel of the Bible.
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I would not think so. Consider all that happens when the repentant sinner enters God's grace and has faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ.
For Salvation not to be lasting, eternal, irrevocable, all that transpired in making that person a new creation in Christ would have to be repealed, reversed, by God who appointed the transformation unto them.
Then, if that person repented again, all that was undone by God would need be reapplied.
And what of the Saint Apostle Paul's saying in the Book of Romans chapter 11:29 (CEV)
God doesn't take back the gifts he has given or disown the people he has chosen.
For Salvation not to be lasting, eternal, irrevocable, all that transpired in making that person a new creation in Christ would have to be repealed, reversed, by God who appointed the transformation unto them.
Then, if that person repented again, all that was undone by God would need be reapplied.
And what of the Saint Apostle Paul's saying in the Book of Romans chapter 11:29 (CEV)
God doesn't take back the gifts he has given or disown the people he has chosen.
E
It is conditional on believing in Christ. What it is not conditional on is the performance of works of the law.
They turned away from their justification in Christ and to justification through the law. That is abundantly clear in the Bible.
Paul plainly pointed out how they were keeping "days, and months, and times, and years" Galatians 4:10. And Paul makes it abundantly clear that the Galatians were people who had really gotten saved. Yet they fell away from Christ for justification and turned to justification through the works of the law. That messes ups a lot of once saved always saved doctrine.
They turned away from their justification in Christ and to justification through the law. That is abundantly clear in the Bible.
Paul plainly pointed out how they were keeping "days, and months, and times, and years" Galatians 4:10. And Paul makes it abundantly clear that the Galatians were people who had really gotten saved. Yet they fell away from Christ for justification and turned to justification through the works of the law. That messes ups a lot of once saved always saved doctrine.
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No the verses say directly that they who were saved, if they are sinning willfuly there remains no more sacrifice for their sins. Only a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES. If we are sinning willfuly we are GOD's adversaries and we shall be devoured. And that is what the willfull sinner HAS TO LOOK FORWARD TO FEAR FULLY. That is what the verse says.
For if we are sinning wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(Heb 10:26-27)
For if we are sinning wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(Heb 10:26-27)
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Then would you answer 'yes' to the question I asked earlier?:
Do you believe the saved person who turns to the law for justification is still saved even though they don't trust in Christ for justification anymore? Or do you say the truly saved person can never turn away from justification through Christ and to works for justification?
Do you believe the saved person who turns to the law for justification is still saved even though they don't trust in Christ for justification anymore? Or do you say the truly saved person can never turn away from justification through Christ and to works for justification?
According to this, then, the Galatians didn't really come to share in Christ because they fell away and did not hold fast the beginning of their assurance firm to the end. So, while Paul says they were in fact saved, this doctrine says they weren't really saved because they fell away. Who's right?
If we won't know that we will hold fast to the end until the end gets here, how do we know if we or anybody else has really come to share in Christ? It seems in this doctrine we can only know those who haven't really come to share in Christ by if they don't hold fast their assurance in Christ now. All the rest of us can't know for sure until the end comes. We have to fall before that to find out for sure.
If we won't know that we will hold fast to the end until the end gets here, how do we know if we or anybody else has really come to share in Christ? It seems in this doctrine we can only know those who haven't really come to share in Christ by if they don't hold fast their assurance in Christ now. All the rest of us can't know for sure until the end comes. We have to fall before that to find out for sure.