sabbath

The gospel is the power that cast out lying spirits or demons .Fasting is bringing the gospel or planting the seed. When we sow the seed. We pray and request that Christ cause the growth in a person . . in a hope that it (gospel) will cast out the lies..

Matthew 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Again fasting is another way of saying bring the gospel planting the seed. The power of gospel cast out the lying spirits as demons.

How close are you assuming. Close enough to be used as a metaphor in a parables?
Of course it is. The signified language is clear. That is if a person mixes faith in what they see or hear not avoiding the hidden understanding..

He gives us the 20/20 prescription to fulfill his ministry.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The spiritually blind see by the power of the gospel. . . the spiritually deaf are given ears to hear the words of His book of prophecy . The power of the gospel gives new spirit life raises those from the dead to new life a new living hope.

Note.... (metaphors in red parenthesis) is the gospel the power of God.

Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor "the gospel is preached."

John knew he had heard the gospel when he heard it again in Luke. It gave him confidence from our Father to finish his work. . . yoked with Christ.

.Parables uses the things seen the temporal to give the unseen gospel understanding. The Bible is the gospel of Christ. Some try and limit it to four books.

The parable Isaiah 58 as to the spiritual meaning can be compared to the parable spoken of in Luke 7. Remember without parables Christ spoke not. ( Parables are prophecy just as tongues.) All of prophecy is needed to rightly divide the word of God . Can't remove parables or tongues if we are to seek His understanding.

Yes it is about those clothed with the righteousness of Christ that works in them to both wil and perform the god pleasure of God.

Can't separate faith the unseen from faith the unseen .

I would agree according to the rest (sabbath) it was made for man. Therefor as long as today is today we can enter that rest . We enter that rest by mixing faith (the gospel ) in what we do see or hear.( Hebrew 4)

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans1: 16-17

The justified shall live by His faith not of our selves but the gift of God as labor of His works that we have in these earthen bodies of death.

No, the gospel is the message of salvation in Jesus Christ. You conflate terms that are unrelated and confuse their meanings until they have none.

No, "fasting" is not "bringing the gospel" and it is not "signified language. It is a literal term and literally means abstaining from food.

Garee, a parable is a specific kind of story. You use the word to mean anything that has "signified language," but that is NOT what the word means. Your insistence on inventing definitions for familiar words only makes you less able to communicate with others.

Learn the standard definition of the word, and use it consistently.

"That is the true Sabbath that the OT command points us to. Believing in Christ is how we please God in the fulfilling of the requirement to enter into Sabbath rest. And the result is the joy and blessing of the Lord"

You got that right my friend. Blessings.

Garee seems to be claiming everything is a parable? I cannot understand his messages at all. Maybe it is because I have not been here long enough and followed along.

Garee could you kindly explain why do you suggest entire chapters are merely parables?

Not everything just what it, as it is written. . is. You could say that which is not is sin.

Parables as prophecy are historically true as well as offering the spiritual truths of the word of God the gospel hidden. Proverbs are a parables that give moral wisdom. Two kinds of parable sometimes used together to convey truth as prophecy

I would offer clearly and not merely a parable. They are used to hide the gospel truth from those who design their own source of faith and not His as it is written alone (sola scriptura) . Its the kind of signified language of God spoken of in Revelation 1 setting up the interpretation rules for that book .Using the things seen in parables, the temporal in order that he might reveal the unseen eternal faith law.

Parables which is one of the manners of prophecy must be rightly divided if we are the hear the gospel message.

A good example of parables. . . a teaching device being used to give the signified understanding to those who struggle to walk by faith (the unseen eternal) is in found in Luke 9 .

There using three to denote the end of the matter. Jesus spoke a parable and purposely hid the spiritual understanding. Again this was to teach them how to walk by faith. . the unseen eternal.

When not understanding the parable they would resort to walk by sight as if the kingdom of God came by observed the temporal things . And the pack would play whose the alfa dog as "who is the greatest". This is with Jesus standing right in front of them their eyes wide open . He must of seemed like goofy to them speaking in parable that afforded no understanding. .?

After the third time He rebuked them and exposed to them the kind of faith manner they were of.( no spirit of faith)

Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest. And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him, And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.(they not understanding the parable) And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (Jesus defines the us in us. )And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, (out of sight out of mind religion) even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of .Luke 9 44-55

Without parables the signified language of God Christ spoke not .

It would really help if you learned how to construct grammatically correct sentences.

Convoluted meaningless bafflegab.

More bafflegab. The signified language mentioned in Revelation 1 refers only to Revelation, not to all the rest of Scripture.

You're getting stuck on the KJV wording, and "dividing" it incorrectly. It would help you to check some other translations.

There are no parables in Luke 9.

Once again, you are ignoring the context of this statement and applying it inappropriately.

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Well... ya see what your Redeemer says

Issues regarding days and diet are not moral in nature.

Particularly, I would point toward Colossians 2:16-17 as an indication that Sabbaths, festivals, and new moons are not applicable to the NT believer.

The same language is used with regards to the entire Mosaic law in Heb 10:1-4. See also Heb 9:9-11 for similar language.

Some, including the SDAs, will deny that Col 2:16-17 is talking about the weekly Sabbath. Others will claim that it is talking about the Sabbath, but they don't keep festivals and/or New Moons for whatever reasons they come up with.

By the way, I am a former Sabbathkeeper so I have studied this issue in detail.

My position is that Sunday is the Lord's Day, and the Sabbath belonged to the old, Mosaic economy.

Jesus was resurrected the eighth (first) day of the week, as a new creation, and it is perfectly reasonable for Christians to observe this day in honor of his resurrection.

I will note that most Sabbathkeepers are a bunch of kooks who claim others aren't saved, or that they are following Satan...quite often Sunday observance is labeled as the "mark of the Beast" by them. The "Beast" is either the Roman Catholic Church or this world's system. Some will defer this until the end times, and claim that other Christians are not currently under the Mark of the Beast but will be under it once Sunday observance laws are enacted by the Roman Catholic Church or the Beast power.

So, Sabbath observance is often the tip of the iceberg...and the cultic groups who claim it is required have much more weird ideas and doctrines. Some are anti-Trinitarian (for instance, SDAs are not really Trinitarians; they are tri-theists, and other Sabbatarians are non-Trinitarian).

The one exception I can think of, regarding all of this, is Messianic Jews such as Jews for Jesus, and Seventh-Day Baptists.

Some Messianic Jews are ok doctrinally, but some are heretical. I think Seventh Day Baptists are legit, from what I've heard, and do not judge non-observant Christians.

I can tell you this much..I would not hang out with the Hebrew Roots Movement, Messianic Jews, and Armstrongites that I know. None of them are sound believers. However, I would consider hanging out with some Seventh Day Baptists and Jews for Jesus if I was really concerned about the Sabbath (but I am not).

Please read posts 149 - 156. Let me know what you think those scriptures are saying

So often your insistence on keeping the meaning of words exact and precise is a help, but it also is often something to obscure God's message. Fasting is limiting our temporal input and concentrating on the spiritual.

Whose standard ?

Dino , a parable is a specific kind of prophecy that is historically true as well as hiding the spiritual unseen understanding of the gospel . The faith to faith, or the unseen eternal to the same unseen eternal understanding. Or called signified in the opening interpretation prescription of the Book of Revelation. God's tongue as prophecy.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for "it" is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.Romans 1: 16-17

Faith as written the unseen understanding. Not faith as that is seen. (no faith)

The prescription for rightly dividing parable is found below.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal

Learn the standard definition of the word, and use it consistently, remembering without parables Christ spoke not.

Yes the eighth (first) day of the week, as a new creation,. a day set aside for fasting or sharing the gospel food for ones soul as well as a physical need to eat for mankind to maitain these bodies of death.

But why not the new era of rests set aside when a person can share the gospel . Like the young's literal translation. Why no ceremonial day to be used as a shadow of the new heavens and earth. Its still a shadow (non judgeable)

Matthew 28 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

Your posts sound like the thrashings of a Judaizer insisting that Sabbath, festivals, and dietary laws must be kept, and those that don't keep them are, in effect, Roman Catholics or their followers.

Been there, done that, bought the T Shirt. I used to follow a Judaizer organization too.

In regards to Paul keeping festivals and Sabbath, he was a Jew and nothing forbade him from observing those days. In fact, it was claimed that he was trying to convince Jews they should not be physically circumcised and keep the Mosaic law customs in Acts 21. He observed a purification ritual in the Temple to prove otherwise.

So, there was nothing wrong with Paul observing some elements of his Judaism, even after the atonement, but Colossians was addressing whether Gentiles were required to observe the same elements.

NOWHERE in the Bible will you find Gentiles being required to observe Sabbath, festivals, and clean meat laws, nor is it required for Jews today to observe them, although they may if they wish.

In fact, many Gentiles were slaves who had no choice about their observances. You can be pretty sure that Christian slaves had no rights in regards to observances and dietary choice. So, don't you think you would have found something in Paul's writings to specify what they should do if required to work on Sabbath, as a slave?

Yes, you would have. It would have been clear how to deal with that situation. Yet, it wasn't mentioned.

There's not much you are going to "educate" me on. I was a Judaizer for ten years as a baptized, fully committed follower of Judaizer teachings, and brought up by a Judaizer parent. I know the issues with the position, and their claims.



By the way, if someone is Seventh Day Adventist, I would suggest the book "Sabbath in Christ" by Dale Ratzlaff. If someone is in Judaizer cults of various types, I would recommend "Freedom in Christ" by Meno Kalisher.

Both are decent books.

And, I do not think it is wrong for Jewish individuals like those from "Jews for Jesus" to observe the Mosaic customs if they are doing so in light of Christ, and not judging other believers as ignorant or pagan. Those guys are Judaizers and I have no use for them. They have created a patchwork quilt of their own righteousness in order to proclaim themselves as the true or knowledgeable believers. It's a trap I fell into myself as a younger person

Amen! And on that note.....

Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward. Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
(Isa 58:6-14 KJV)

There remaineth therefore a Sabbath rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10)

Three things being spoken of in those text above. A Sabbath Rest, The Rest to which is the Gospel, and a ceasing from work like God did.
He that entered into his rest, the Gospel cease from their own works AS God did from His.

"As God did from His" is a direct comparison.

Yes, in obeying the prescription (2 Corinthians 4:18) he treated the temporal "shadows of faith" (the unseen eternal word) as shadows.

2 Corinthians 4:18 we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen are temporary, but the things not seen are age-during. (eternal)

Things of faith.

Saul previously having no faith as a law of the fathers. As Paul was given the faith that worked in him to understand the kingdom of God is not of this world .It does not come by observation. The unbelieving Jew required that they walk by sight as if it did by what the eyes see and the flesh feels . And they lorded it over the faith of others. Murdering them that did believe in God not seen as the pagan worlds chose of religion . . out of sight out of mind.(Acts 22:4

Gentiles were required to perform ceremonial observations (not a moral law) but they still remained as shadow of the unseen eternal. . As a shadow it neither brought them closer or moved them further away from the presence of God. In that way ceremonial laws are used as a representative glory of the fathers unseen glory to be revealed in the new heavens and earth. Some Jews wore the ceremonies as if it was there own flesh they were to glory in.

It was more of a privilege or a honor to be used as a representative glory of the unseen in heaven .The hair covering as substitutional glory (woman was not left with a substitution glory of her own is in respect to new testament cerinimoinal law.

Previously before the reformation women were separated and could not participate in the ceremonies. There was a high wall and another that wall that separated the gentiles .Both walls fell down . When Christ said it is finished. . opening the new way as a result of the reformation. . restoring the government of God back to when men called Him King of kings. (Judges) Having given over the apostate Jewish elders request because of their jealously of the surrounding pagan nations to set up their own pagan form of government . (no faith in a God not seen. . what you do see is what you get.) . The time of reformation had come.

When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.Deuteronomy 21" 10 -13

Perfect Segway into 2 Corinthians 3...

2 Corinthians 3
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

So how is working at the 10 commandments ceasing from works as God did from His?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


Rest is given as a gift from God. Not something that you can work at and give yourself.

The verse you referenced has more than one possibility.

I can think of at least two:

1. It is talking about the Jews, who have not yet entered into their spiritual rest in Christ, of which the day was a type.
2. It is talking about the Church, who have not yet entered into salvation in terms of glorification.

Hebrews 3,4 is talking about different types of "rest of God".

One "rest of God" was the creation rest, where God "ceased" from his creation. By the way, only God rested. It is a claim that man rested as well.

Another "rest of God" was the Promised Land of Israel. Israel had rest from their enemies in the Promised Land, after it was conquered under Joshua..

Another "rest of God" is the weekly Sabbath, which is typological.

Another "rest of God" is placing one's faith in Jesus and resting in Him and his finished work.

The ultimate "rest of God" is ultimate salvation/glorification and the New Heavens/New Earth, where death and all enemies will be defeated.

There is no proof-text for Sabbath-keepers in these chapters.

In fact, one should read the whole book of Hebrews. Hebrews shows how Jesus and the New Covenant is "better than" the angels, all the characters of the OT that pointed to Him as types, and that the New Covenant is better than the Old Covenant. It was meant to show the Jews that they needed to move forward in their faith in Jesus, and not dwell in the Mosaic Covenant and ritualistic observances that pointed toward Jesus. They had the "substance" now..why did they need all the shadows and types?

So, any Sabbath-keeper who is trying to squeeze a requirement to observe the Sabbath out of Hebrews 3-4 is urinating in the wind.

UnitedWithChrist,
re: "My position is that Sunday is the Lord's Day..."

Just so it's understood that scripture never refers to the 1st day of the week as the Lord'd Day.



re: "Jesus was resurrected the eighth (first) day of the week..."

Just so it's understood that scripture never refers to the 1st day of the week as the eighth day of the week.



I only mention it in case there may be some who think that it does.