sabbath

[PS]

The "days" of creation, never were days as we know them.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...QxCe0dSfbk1rvJTqiZr0EskFRirwX-J6eWUXwCN2A/pub

 

[Dino246]

The "days" of creation, never were days as we know them.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...QxCe0dSfbk1rvJTqiZr0EskFRirwX-J6eWUXwCN2A/pub

The link points to an article that takes unscientific speculation as gospel truth and reduces gospel truth to unscientific speculation.

 

[PS]

The link points to an article that takes unscientific speculation as gospel truth and reduces gospel truth to unscientific speculation.

Wrong.

 

[Grace911]

Simply because the sabbath is intended for the Jews. It is a sign for Israel. This covenant is throughout their generations. In the New Testament, Jesus breaks the sabbath law, thus started a new generation base on faith. His death, burial and resurrection is the basis of the New Testament Christianity and is no longer a law, so is no longer kept.


Exodus 31:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

If Jesus broke the Sabbath (that He wrote - dictated to Moses) then He would have been a sinner. You are confusing the Pharisees extra non biblical additions (often referred to as the oral law) that Jesus railed the Pharisees for, because their extra laws was making the law of God of none effect. By choosing to believe the lie that the Sabbath was broken by Jesus, you are no different than those who Jesus reprimanded.

 

[JesusLives]

The "days" of creation, never were days as we know them.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...QxCe0dSfbk1rvJTqiZr0EskFRirwX-J6eWUXwCN2A/pub

Bible says over and over the evening and the morning were what ever day you want to refer to 1-7. Don't know about you but evening and mornings in this earth we live on are approx. 24 hours per day.... These are the days of our lives..... sounds like a US TV show.....

 

[Nehemiah6]

The "days" of creation, never were days as we know them.

Why don't you read the Ten Commandments again and believe what they say?

 

[PS]

Why don't you read the Ten Commandments again and believe what they say?

I do not know what you mean.

 

[JesusLives]

I do not know what you mean.

Read the 4th commandment in full...speaking of the Creator God.

 

[Judges1318]

why is the sabbath not been kept by all Christians? I need guidance please

Faith in Christ is the new way--the New Covenant--through which we draw near to God.

There is no need to draw near to God through a Sabbath observance for those who have already been brought near to God through the new way of faith in Christ. Just as there is no need to draw near to God through the old way of animal sacrifice for those who have been brought near to God through through the new way of the sacrifice of the blood and body of Jesus Christ.

Not keeping the old ways looks like we Christians are destroying the old covenant law. No, that is not what faith does. The old covenant finds it's final and complete 'keeping' once and for all in Christ. Faith in Christ makes the old covenant ways of drawing near to God obsolete and simply unneeded now. Through faith in Christ we lay aside the temporal, carnal command to rest, and be circumcised, etc. and enter into the everlasting, spiritual reality of rest and circumcision that the carnal pointed us toward.

 

[posthuman]

Someone had made an illustration to explain what it means to be 'under the law'.

If you are driving 80 km per hour in 60 zone right? Are you under or above the law.

It means if you driving above the speed limit prescribed, you are actually under the law. Because you are breaking the law and not above it.

But when you drive within the speed limit, you are above the law.

It means in simple terms, you are under grace and not under the law.

that seems more like 'obedient to the law' than 'above the law' -- 'above the law' has the connotation that you cannot be judged by it, whether judged as in accordance or as in violation. like when an ambulance or firetruck or police car flips its lights on - they aren't under speed limit laws at that point, but 'above them' - or like an ambassador with diplomatic immunity; he or she can't be charged in court with certain crimes.

in Matthew 12, when Jesus is approached by the pharisees, saying that his disciples picking grain and eating it are violating sabbath, He gives examples of David & his men eating shewbread, which is forbidden by the law, and says they are innocent. He points out that the priests in the temple, doing as the law instructs them to, violate every sabbath, and they too are innocent. and this is where He says He is 'Lord of the sabbath' -- the implication isn't that He is Lord of the sabbath because He is the obedient 'servant' of the sabbath ((why not give examples of perfect adherence to the sabbath laws?)) but that He is above the sabbath & cannot be judged by it ((He gave examples of breaking the letter of the law without guilt)) - Someone greater than the temple, He says, right after pointing out that the requirements of the temple service make the priests in it able to technically 'violate' the letter of the sabbath laws without being judged guilty by the law - in fact the law requires them to do this.

the priests doing work in the temple on sabbath aren't an example of a car driving between 45-55mph in your analogy -- they are an example of an emergency vehicle in the line of duty driving 90mph in a 55mph zone, and not being held liable for it, because 'something greater than the speed limit' is there.

if that makes sense?

 

[cv5]

JOHN 4 [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

How do true worshipers worship? In spirit and truth

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 we see that the law is spiritual

ROMANS 15 [25] But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.[26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.[27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. FOR IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

The gentiles have been made partakers of Gods law.

PSALM 119 [150] They draw nigh that follow after mischief: they are far from thy law. [151] Thou art near, O LORD; and all THY COMMANDMENTS ARE TRUTH.

worship in spirit and truth

ACTS 24 [13] Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, SO WORSHIP I the God of my fathers, BELIEVING ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAW and in the prophets:

Paul speaking

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. [16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;

How are we to recieve this Spirit of truth spoken of in John 4? By the keeping of Gods 10 commandments

Romans 7 is perfectly clear. Christians are NO LONGER obligated to keep the Law of Moses, the "letter". The Husband has died, we are unbound. Simple. Why the confusion I cannot understand. There is far too much word salad gibberish posted on this matter.

Rom 7

Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
4Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

 

[Judges1318]

that seems more like 'obedient to the law' than 'above the law' -- 'above the law' has the connotation that you cannot be judged by it, whether judged as in accordance or as in violation. like when an ambulance or firetruck or police car flips its lights on - they aren't under speed limit laws at that point, but 'above them' - or like an ambassador with diplomatic immunity; he or she can't be charged in court with certain crimes.

in Matthew 12, when Jesus is approached by the pharisees, saying that his disciples picking grain and eating it are violating sabbath, He gives examples of David & his men eating shewbread, which is forbidden by the law, and says they are innocent. He points out that the priests in the temple, doing as the law instructs them to, violate every sabbath, and they too are innocent. and this is where He says He is 'Lord of the sabbath' -- the implication isn't that He is Lord of the sabbath because He is the obedient 'servant' of the sabbath ((why not give examples of perfect adherence to the sabbath laws?)) but that He is above the sabbath & cannot be judged by it ((He gave examples of breaking the letter of the law without guilt)) - Someone greater than the temple, He says, right after pointing out that the requirements of the temple service make the priests in it able to technically 'violate' the letter of the sabbath laws without being judged guilty by the law - in fact the law requires them to do this.

the priests doing work in the temple on sabbath aren't an example of a car driving between 45-55mph in your analogy -- they are an example of an emergency vehicle in the line of duty driving 90mph in a 55mph zone, and not being held liable for it, because 'something greater than the speed limit' is there.

if that makes sense?

I like the analogy of steel.

According to the laws of physics, steel can not float on water, nor can it float on the air. The laws of physics does not allow that. If you try to do either you will suddenly come under the 'condemnation' of the law of physics and your steel will sink to the bottom of the lake, and your steel will come crashing to the ground. But through knowledge steel can float on water and air, all the while leaving the law that says it can't do that intact and unbroken.

You haven't broken the law that says steel can't fly and steel can't float. You've simply made them obsolete and inapplicable through knowledge. To those who don't have this knowledge it appears that you are breaking the laws that govern the behavior of steel in water and air, but in reality those laws remain intact and unbroken. Just simply not applicable now in the face of new knowledge. So it is with the ceremonial laws in the old covenant. Knowledge sets us free from those laws.

 

[PS]

The Sabbath commandment was given only to Israel
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

The command was given by their ancestors, not Moses
“On the Sabbath should we do good deeds or evil deeds? Should we save someone’s life or destroy it?” But no one said a word. (Mar 3:4 CEV) Furthermore, “Moses commanded you to circumcise your sons. But it wasn’t really Moses who gave you this command. It was your ancestors, and even on the Sabbath you circumcise your sons. Why are you angry with me for making someone completely well on the Sabbath? Don’t judge by appearances. Judge by what is right. (Joh 7:22-24 CEV)

They were required to make burnt offerings on the Sabbath:-
And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish. Eze_46:4

in remembrance of their delivery from slavery
Exd 31:13 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. Deu_5:15

Naturally this does not include Gentiles:
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. Rom 14:5

Neither should Gentiles be falsely judged for not remembering Jewish customs and traditions
“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days”: Col 2:16

They often broke the Sabbath:
And Jesus said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then, is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. Mat_12:11-12 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? Luk_14:5

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath:
“The Sabbath was made to meet the needs of people, and not people to meet the requirements of the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even over the Sabbath!” (Mar 2:27-28 NLT)

They plotted to crucify the Lord of the Sabbath
Eternal rest can only be found in Christ Jesus who took upon himself the sins of the world. After resting in the grave on the seventh day He rose again in newness of life on the first day, conquering sin and death by one sacrifice, forever setting us free from the bondage, of Sin. Glory be to God.

Finally, while Jews remember their captivity on earth, Christians remember, and praise their eternal redeemer for their freedom from eternal destruction, which will be the fate of many Sabbath keepers.

 

[PS]

I made a mistake in para two. Who will be the first to spot it?

 

[garee]

That's a very fair point as well.
God said, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Man can choose any day to be in rest with God. We are never separated from God having the indwelling Holy Spirit within us. Taking time away from the world to be at rest in God on any one day is a chance to recharge, and be alone with God without the distractions of work, etc...

God isn't going to damn the Christian for observing Sabbath. On any day we're able. Though He may have a word or two to say for those who disparage us for that.

Yes its a ceremonial law as shadow designed for the forty year training period in the wilderness. A day set aside when a person could share the gospel as a fast in a hope of being heard on high . It can be on any day or everyday if one is given that kind of blessing.

 

[Dino246]

Yes its a ceremonial law as shadow designed for the forty year training period in the wilderness. A day set aside when a person could share the gospel as a fast in a hope of being heard on high . It can be on any day or everyday if one is given that kind of blessing.

Sharing the gospel, fasting, and sabbath are only distantly related. Your conflation of them is unfathomable.

 

[garee]

Are you familiar with the "Feast of Weeks"?

The Feast of Weeks
Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
Lev 23:17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.
Lev 23:18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD.
Lev 23:19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.
Lev 23:20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest.
Lev 23:21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
Lev 23:22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

The Hebrew calendar shows Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. That evening was the beginning of the High Sabbath of Feast of Unleavened Bread. God says "There are the feasts (plural) of the Lord". They are not just the feasts (plural) of the Jews, however, after God divorced the House of Israel and scattered them and they became Gentiles, Gentiles have been removed from the "House Rules of their LORD (YHWY). Anyway, the first Friday sundown to Saturday sundown after the crucifixion is called, ……...first day of the week, and then the next Friday sundown to Saturday sundown is called second day of the week, and continues on until you have counted 7 Sabbaths (7 x 7 = 49 days) and then on the Saturday sundown to Sunday sundown is the 50th day (but it is also in reality the first day of the week, which by the way is the same way Jubilees are counted...49 years, then 50th year, which is also the 1st year of the next cycle)

Most Christians are under the idea that Jesus replaced the Old Testament laws. No not so. Jesus is God manifested. God does not change and Jesus does not change. In the Torah and in Revelations we are commanded not to add or take away any words.

Amo_3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Which of the Lord GOD's prophets revealed that the seventh day Sabbath was going to be "done away with" or "changed"?

It was never established as one day only . The time period according to Hebrews 4 is today as long as today is today (under the Sun. . time)

The word sabbath simply means rest. There is no time element needed as a law .The first day is the new era of Sabbaths the day God said let there be light, a new beginning the reformation had come.

Matthew 28 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

Replacing a non time sensitive word rest( sabbath) with one sensitive week reveals something. Just as the non time sentive word rest sabbath was chaned in Luke 18 where the word saath was cahneged to wice a week rather that two meals .the normal thre meals on the Saabth

Matthew 28 King James Version (KJV) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

Luke 18:12 KJ I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
.
It is rather. . . I fast twice in the Sabbath , I give tithes of all that I possess. All one self righteous brag . Not I watch my healthy weight and tithes of all that I possess twice in the week. .The Greek had no word for week .It certainly was not sabbath
.
give

 

[garee]

Sharing the gospel, fasting, and sabbath are only distantly related. Your conflation of them is unfathomable.

My conflation or the kind that the disciples could not cast out seeing they only come out by hearing the gospel. it would seem they are connected perfectly .

According to the parable Isiah 58. . it gives us a clear understanding of what results when men mix faith, the eternal unseen understanding in what is revealed in the scriptures, not looking to what they eyes see but what the new heart and spirit reveal. . The true fast as the gospel of our salvation. Food the disciples at first knew not of that which comes with. . fasting (offering the gospel mixed with worldly needs as one labor of love. ) .

Gospel metaphors (Purple in parenthesis)


Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God. Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours. Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord? Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward. Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day: And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. Isaiah 58:1-11

Its what the sabbath was set aside for. . . . . . . . . . . . rest from works that only he can perform .

 

[Dino246]

My conflation or the kind that the disciples could not cast out seeing they only come out by hearing the gospel. it would seem they are connected perfectly .

Your words in bold are about demons, and have nothing whatsoever to do with sharing the gospel or the sabbath.

Your words in italics are a corruption of Jesus' words from the same story. His actual words are, "This kind only comes out by prayer," not "This kind only comes out by hearing the gospel."

There is no close connection between the three subjects.

According to the parable Isiah 58.

Isaiah 58 is not a parable.

. it gives us a clear understanding of what results when men mix faith, the eternal unseen understanding in what is revealed in the scriptures, not looking to what they eyes see but what the new heart and spirit reveal. . The true fast as the gospel of our salvation. Food the disciples at first knew not of that which comes with. . fasting (offering the gospel mixed with worldly needs as one labor of love. ) .

The Isaiah 58 passage is about righteous behaviour, not faith.

Its what the sabbath was set aside for. . . . . . . . . . . . rest from works that only he can perform .

According to Jesus, the sabbath was made for man.

 

[Judges1318]

@garee is on the right track. We see the gospel in the Sabbath command:

Deuteronomy 5:14-15 NASB
"...the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. ‘You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.

The Sabbath is a foreshadow of how we are to enter into a rest from our evil deeds. We're the son or daughter, servant, and beast of burden, and alien that was in bondage to the task master of sin in the land of Egypt. God commands us to enter into Sabbath rest from that sin, or else die. That is the true Sabbath that the OT command points us to. Believing in Christ is how we please God in the fulfilling of the requirement to enter into Sabbath rest. And the result is the joy and blessing of the Lord:

Isaiah 58:13-14 NIV
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the Lord, and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.”

As the prophet is showing us, to focus on the command to observe Sabbath rest in the legalistic, literal way of the old covenant but continue in wickedness is to miss the true Sabbath--rest from the works of sin. The sin we were in bondage to when we were in the world. Through our faith in Christ we enter into the true Sabbath of rest--rest from the task master of the flesh and our wicked deeds:

Matthew 11:28-29
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls."

By drawing near to God in Sabbath rest in the new way of faith in Christ we make the old way obsolete and unneeded now. The person who has been brought near to God in Sabbath rest through faith in Christ does not need to draw close to God through the old covenant command for Sabbath rest. The believer in Christ has already fulfilled the law of Sabbath rest, perfectly and forever. No need to try to do that which has already been accomplished through faith in Christ. Christ is the fulfillment of the old covenant ceremonial law.