Mystery Babylon

Your view ignores the description of the two witnesses almost completely. Your insistence on everything being signified is blinding you to straightforward literal truth.

I think it defines them completely. it never about the flesh of men (Moses and Elisa) the temporal things seen Its what parables do give us the spiritual understanding of straightforward literal truth .

God does not accept the witness of men as the things seen.

Thanks yes I can see how it fits Jerusalem.
I'm more inclined to believe its Jersalem than Rome. If its Rome then is it all still future.

The one that plays the harlot has always been Israel in the OT. But those who think tis Rome posit that it was christians themselves who became harlots. Which I find a bit of a stretch or yoga of scripture. Twisting it a bit unnaturally to fit a preconceived idea.

After all the heavenly city descending from heaven is the NEW Jerusalem, not a new Rome. So what happened to the old Jerusalem?

You haven't read the text carefully enough.

The old Jerusalem, emblematic of the Mosaic Age and the Law HAD TO BY NECESSITY pass away (which happened in 70 AD) so that the world would know in our new age of Grace AKA, the Messianic Age or Church age that salvation is now open to all. Christ alone is head of the Church, that body of believers, in the whole world and we collectively are His bride.

Think about how extraordinary the change was between the two ages and the two very different ways God dealt with them vs. how He deals with us. There was a 40 year transition period between ages from Christ in 30 AD to the complete and total destruction of Israel 40 years later just as there was a 40 year transition from Egypt to the promise land. God chose Israel to be His witness to the world. They failed Him by chasing after foreign gods. God called this, "Harlotry." Israel always played the Harlot. Thus "Babylon, the Mother of all Harlots" must have been Jerusalem.

During and after Christ, Israel and its priests offered up sacrifices to Caesar in the temple on a daily basis. Many do not know this. Rome in exchange, allowed the Jewish priests to keep up their religion. This is the picture of the Harlot (Jerusalem) riding the Beast (Rome). Together they were responsible for the desolation of Jerusalem.

John 19:15 But they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!”

Based on the above, who's the harlot??? They rejected Christ as their king and instead proclaimed Caesar as their king and had Christ crucified.

Mat 10: 34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

Christ's ministry created a great division between the believing and unbelieving Jews. Christians were under constant persecution by the Jews, far more than the Romans. According to third century Church leader, Eusebius of Caesarea, the Christians in Jerusalem fled just prior to the Roman siege and not one of them were lost. Josephus also recounts this and states that they heard a voice from Heaven saying, "Let us remove hence." 1.1 million non-believing Jews were killed by sword, by famine and by disease.

Mat 23:34 "Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify..." --- This is to the future of when Jesus spoke these words. ---

--- Paul and Peter were two apostles (they were also prophets), that were crucified where? ---

ANSWER: In Rome!

--- In Her, Rome, is where the blood of prophets (i.e. Peter and Paul) and saints are found. ---

36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Yes, Peter and Paul were of this generation. Nero began killing the saints in this generation.

Nero is the first man of lawlessness. No, wait. Julius Caesar is the first of the little horn which plucked up three horns (The First Triumvirate) Wikipedia this!

The King of Rome is the "The King Who Exalts Himself" Daniel 11:36

... and who is "The King Who Exalts Himself" in Rome today?

Mystery Babylon Solved!

LOL. WRONG!! Who was Jesus speaking to? The Jewish scribes and pharisees. He would be sending them prophets. Where were they located? JERUSALEM. Jesus was NOT discussing Peter and Paul who were killed in Rome. He was discussing other saints and prophets to come starting with Stephen and ending with James, the Just, half-brother of Christ who was killed by the Jewish priests when they threw him from the top of the Temple. That very day, Roman armies surrounded the city.

The Roman persecution under Nero was relatively short lived compared to the Jewish persecution of Christians which began immediately and lasted until Jerusalem was surrounded by Rome.

You highlight it right here! They Chose Caesar the anti-christ over Jesus the Messiah.

(prince of Tyre is but a man)
Ezekiel 28:2
Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, Thus says the Lord God:
“Because your heart is proud,
and you have said, ‘I am a god,
I sit in the seat of the gods,
in the heart of the seas,’re is
yet you are but a man, and no god,

(king of Tyre is but Satan, a god)
Ezekiel 28:12-13
“Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God:
“You were the signet of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
You were in Eden, the garden of God;...
Ezekiel 28:14
You were an anointed guardian cherub.
-------------------
QUESTION
So then who is the "The King Who Exalts Himself" in Daniel 11:36?
Is he but a man? or is he a fallen cherub/angel (god)?

Daniel 11:36
“The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods.

ANSWER
The King Who Exalts Himself" is not a man! He is a god.

Daniel 11:40 says this about "The King Who Exalts Himself".
"He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood."

Let us compare this to Revelation 12:15-16
"Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth."

------------

Is the dragon just some animal? No, he is a god.
Is the King Who Exalts Himself just some man? No, he too is a god.

and

is "spewed water like a river" to be interpreted literally? No!
You can see this in Daniel 11:40 that "sweep through them like a flood" means to bring war and killing.

Well scripture says the great city where the LORD was crucified. Revelation 11:8 PEter and Paul were not the Lord. Who is the Lord???? And where was he crucified?

Revelation 18:18 mentions a GREAT CITY as does 18:21

Yea I dont know about the Pope hes not a king in my book.

I reckon it was Jerusalem John was writing about in Revelation. Some of the apostles never even reached Rome.

The chief priests were the JEWISH priests in Jerusalem not any priests from Rome! Also they did identify with Caesar but back then there was no such thing as a pope. Roman catholicism and popes only came about in the 3rd century which was WAY after the gospels and book of revelation was written.

Rome is where they are perpetually crucifying our Lord.
1) our Lord is perpetually hung on a cross in St. Peter's Basilica
2) our Lord is perpetually crucified through the stations of the cross in St. Peter's Basilica Piazza, Rome, Italy
3) our Lord is perpetually sacrificed on an altar in St. Peter's Basilica
https://www.romereports.com/en/2019...ation-of-st-peters-basilicas-oldest-crucifix/

Ephesians 6:10-12
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Men are not the rulers!!!!
The Jews did not choose Caesar. They chose Satan who ruled the world through Caesar.

Once Caesar died Satan then ruled the world through Rome/Augustus... Then through Rome/Nero...
Today Satan rules the world through Rome/Pope.

Did you see post #430?
In Ezekiel 28, who was the ruler (king) of Tyre? Satan.
But who were the people of Tyre following? They were following the prince of Tyre (a man).

Those who were following the prince of Tyre were actually following the king of Tyre (Satan).

The King of Tyre was clearly a man who ruled the ancient city of Tyre (part of modern Lebanon) in the 900s BC. Ezekiel was looking back and he appears to link the King to Satan almost as if saying they were one and the same person. Mostly likely the King of Tyre was under Satan's influence possibly even possessed, which is a similar description which would later be used on Judas.

The Daniel 11:36 king was Antiochus IV Epiphanes who died in 164 BC.

You seem to be conflating the events of 175-164 BC with the events of 66-73 AD.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes was an anti-god figure. Antiochus was the first Seleucid king to use divine epithets on coins, inspired by the Bactrian Hellenistic kings who had earlier done so. He built on the ruler cult that his father Antiochus the Great had codified within the Seleucid Empire. These epithets included Θεὸς Ἐπιφανής "manifest god", and, after his defeat of Egypt, Νικηφόρος "bringer of victory." He would depose the Jewish high priest, Jason, and install his own Hellenistic priest, Melenaus. He would defile the temple sanctuary and slaughter a pig on the alter. He would order the end of all Jewish religious practices and ordered the Jews to worship Zeus.

Jason would eventually gather an army of 1,000 men and regain control of the Temple causing Melenaus to flee Jerusalem. This enraged Antiochus who was in Egypt at the time. He sent an army to Judea and they slaughtered 80,000 people and took many more as slaves. At the time, Antichus was waging war with Egypt, Cyprus and many other countries. But before he could complete his conquest of Alexandria, Roman Ambassador Laenus delivered a message from the Roman Senate that Antiochus would either leave Egypt and Cyprus or they would consider themselves at war. Antiochus was forced to back down and retreat.

King Mithridates of Parthia took advantage of Antiochus' western problems and attacked from the east, seizing the city of Herat in 167 BC and disrupting the direct trade route to India, effectively splitting the Greek world in two. Antiochus recognized the potential danger in the east but was unwilling to give up control of Judea. He sent a commander named Lysias to deal with the Maccabees, while the King himself led the main Seleucid army against the Parthians. Antiochus had initial success in his eastern campaign, including the reoccupation of Armenia. According to the scroll of Antiochus, when Antiochus heard that his army had been defeated in Judea, he boarded a ship and fled to the coastal cities. According to the Second Book of the Maccabees, Antiochus was horrifically injured while in the coastal region of Israel ("between the seas and the glorious holy mountain"), which contributed to his death.

5 But the all-seeing Lord, the God of Israel, struck him with an incurable and invisible blow. As soon as he stopped speaking he was seized with a pain in his bowels, for which there was no relief, and with sharp internal tortures— 6 and that very justly, for he had tortured the bowels of others with many and strange inflictions. 7 Yet he did not in any way stop his insolence, but was even more filled with arrogance, breathing fire in his rage against the Jews, and giving orders to drive even faster. And so it came about that he fell out of his chariot as it was rushing along, and the fall was so hard as to torture every limb of his body. 8 Thus he who only a little while before had thought in his superhuman arrogance that he could command the waves of the sea, and had imagined that he could weigh the high mountains in a balance, was brought down to earth and carried in a litter, making the power of God manifest to all. — 2 Maccabees 9:5-9

THE WOMAN of REV 12 was the Christian, mostly Jewish, church in Jerusalem which fled to Pella prior to the Roman siege of Jerusalem, thus protected from the next "Satan" General Titus, the Prince of Daniel 9.

Yes, you have it right!!

All of this stuff that some incorrectly attribute to our future in fact all dealt with the destruction of Israel in 70 AD. Jesus foretold and proclaimed that "ALL OF THIS" would come to that generation, the generation that would put Him to death. John the Baptist opens the NT with a prophesy about what would come to those wicked Jewish Messiah murdering priests when he said the ax was already laid to the tree.

Well it took a while to figure it out cos so many people think its Rome and give this or that scripture but each time I look it their reasons for it just doesnt seem to add up.

I think some people just really really really want it to be Rome. Now Rome has its issues but it never was on Gods radar or had a place in Gods heart like Jerusalem, and when the Bible talks about priests it was talking about the sanhedrin, not catholicism, which didnt even exist at the time the gospels and revelation was written. So how could it be warning about rome if it wasnt even regarded as anything great. Even today Rome isnt that significant as a city, while Jerusalem the entire world loves or hates it, people dont go to rome to experience what Jesus experienced in the crucifixtion or remember that he died for us there.

I never said there was a city or great city mentioned in Revelation 12. So, I don't know why you mentioned that. What I did say is that, there are two woman mentioned, one in Rev.12 which is symbolically representing the nation Israel. And the woman of Rev.17 which is that great city who rules over the kings of the earth. My point was not to confuse the two woman.

The woman of Revelation 12 = The nation Israel (Genesis 37:9-10)

The woman of Revelation 17 = That great city that rules over the kings of the earth, which at that time was Rome

Of that there is no doubt, because the city is identified as "where their Lord was crucified," which could be none other than the literal city of Jerusalem.

Both Rev.11:8 and Rev.17:18 use the term "great city."

In Rev.11:8, the great city is where the two witnesses Lord was crucified and in Rev.17:18, is that great city that ruled over the kings of the earth. Needless to say, Israel never ruled over the kings of the earth. However, the great city where their Lord was crucified is identifying Jerusalem.

It is important for us to not pigeonhole phrases. These are obviously two different great cities and that because of their descriptions.

Yes, I agree with everything that you have posted above. The scripture which states that "the woman is that great city who rules over the kings of the earth" is meant to point us to Rome which was built on and is famous for her seven hills and which is where Vatican city sits and which is the woman's headquarters.

At the time that John was receiving that information from the angel, Roman Catholicism didn't exist. She is called Mystery, Babylon the great, because within Roman Catholicism can be found most of the pagan practices and rituals of the pagan beliefs that came out of Babylon. She is a counterfeit church and is hiding right in plain site. One could start with the question as to what that 82 ft. Egyptian obelisk is doing siting out on her doorstep. That alone should be a red flag, for I am pretty sure that giant Ashura pole does not glorify God in the least.

We could go on to the Mitre hat that the pope and other bishops wear, which closely resemble the fish hats worn by the Philistine priests of dagon and the Babylonians.

We could also go on to worship of Mary, the teaching of purgatory, the eucharist and transubstantiation which is the teaching that Christ is pulled down out of heaven to enter the wafer so that those who are partaking are eating His literal flesh and blood.


Blessings!

@Ahwatukee You and I see eye to eye on another topic, are you my long lost twin brother I wasn't told about? Vatican city and the entire institution of the roman catholic church matches the description of the book of Revelation line by line, from colors, to the cup, to the blood of the saints to the city with power over the nations (city, not a country like USA as some claim babylon is USA)

We must be long lost spiritual brothers The Holy Spirit reveals the same truth to all who are diligently looking for it, yes?

Yeah, I could never understand why those people try to make the United States out to be Babylon the Great, when as you mentioned, the scripture describes the woman as being a city which sits on seven hills. The woman is also dressed in purple and scarlet:





And Glittering with Gold:



By the way, have you ever read "Roman Catholicism in the Last Days: The Woman Who Rides the Beast" by Dave Hunt. It goes into the history of Roman Catholicism, as those who initiated the inquisitions and the blood that the church and her popes shed, as well as her role with the coming beast.