Is unconditional election biblical?
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If your perception of the scripture was correct there would be no mercy and all would be cast into eternal condemnation. Calvinists are Calvinists because they cannot allow God to be merciful toward sinners. In your soteriology God is only merciful to the elect.
There is an old story about an old cat who sat on a hot stove. He so well learned his lesson that he never sat down again.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
There is an old story about an old cat who sat on a hot stove. He so well learned his lesson that he never sat down again.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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If my perception of scripture was correct there’d be no mercy? You expect God to show mercy on everybody as if they deserve mercy. God is not beholden to any man, as you think He does.
Again...
5 The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. 6 You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.[Psalm 5]
Who does God hate? All who do(commit) iniquity. He does not just hate the sin, but the sinner, too. Who does the Lord abhor? The man of bloodshed and deceit, not just the bloodshed and deceit. You are erroneously trying to divorce the sinner from the sin. Your false view of man has automatically given you a false view of God.
16 There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.[Proverbs 6]
These are speaking of the man as well as the sins they commit. Hands that shed innocent blood is referring to both the murder and murderer. A false witness who utters lies is referring to both the lies and the liar. The one who spreads strife(discord) is referring to both the strife and the one causing the strife. You can not divorce them from each other.
Then you said in a previous post that God’s wrath is upon sin. A nice way to twist scripture there. That’s not what it says at all.
”He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him”.[John 3:36]
Notice, the wrath of God abides on him, the lost sinner, not his sin.
And getting back to mercy.
So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.[Romans 9:18] And Paul got that from And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”[Exodus 33:19]
God is merciful with a # of God-hating, rebellious ppl, but you scoff at that. If He doesn’t play by your rules, well, He isn’t worthy of you, your praise, and your worship.
Now, no more thinly veiled, cowardly “we’re not saved” posts from you. Just come out and tell us we’re lost. You haven’t the nerve to say it, but in cowardice, you post it in thinly veiled insults.
Again...
5 The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. 6 You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.[Psalm 5]
Who does God hate? All who do(commit) iniquity. He does not just hate the sin, but the sinner, too. Who does the Lord abhor? The man of bloodshed and deceit, not just the bloodshed and deceit. You are erroneously trying to divorce the sinner from the sin. Your false view of man has automatically given you a false view of God.
16 There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.[Proverbs 6]
These are speaking of the man as well as the sins they commit. Hands that shed innocent blood is referring to both the murder and murderer. A false witness who utters lies is referring to both the lies and the liar. The one who spreads strife(discord) is referring to both the strife and the one causing the strife. You can not divorce them from each other.
Then you said in a previous post that God’s wrath is upon sin. A nice way to twist scripture there. That’s not what it says at all.
”He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him”.[John 3:36]
Notice, the wrath of God abides on him, the lost sinner, not his sin.
And getting back to mercy.
So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.[Romans 9:18] And Paul got that from And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”[Exodus 33:19]
God is merciful with a # of God-hating, rebellious ppl, but you scoff at that. If He doesn’t play by your rules, well, He isn’t worthy of you, your praise, and your worship.
Now, no more thinly veiled, cowardly “we’re not saved” posts from you. Just come out and tell us we’re lost. You haven’t the nerve to say it, but in cowardice, you post it in thinly veiled insults.
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If my perception of scripture was correct there’d be no mercy? You expect God to show mercy on everybody as if they deserve mercy. God is not beholden to any man, as you think He does.
Again...
5 The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. 6 You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.[Psalm 5]
Who does God hate? All who do(commit) iniquity. He does not just hate the sin, but the sinner, too. Who does the Lord abhor? The man of bloodshed and deceit, not just the bloodshed and deceit. You are erroneously trying to divorce the sinner from the sin. Your false view of man has automatically given you a false view of God.
16 There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.[Proverbs 6]
These are speaking of the man as well as the sins they commit. Hands that shed innocent blood is referring to both the murder and murderer. A false witness who utters lies is referring to both the lies and the liar. The one who spreads strife(discord) is referring to both the strife and the one causing the strife. You can not divorce them from each other.
Then you said in a previous post that God’s wrath is upon sin. A nice way to twist scripture there. That’s not what it says at all.
”He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him”.[John 3:36]
Notice, the wrath of God abides on him, the lost sinner, not his sin.
And getting back to mercy.
So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.[Romans 9:18] And Paul got that from And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”[Exodus 33:19]
God is merciful with a # of God-hating, rebellious ppl, but you scoff at that. If He doesn’t play by your rules, well, He isn’t worthy of you, your praise, and your worship.
Now, no more thinly veiled, cowardly “we’re not saved” posts from you. Just come out and tell us we’re lost. You haven’t the nerve to say it, but in cowardice, you post it in thinly veiled insults.
Again...
5 The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. 6 You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.[Psalm 5]
Who does God hate? All who do(commit) iniquity. He does not just hate the sin, but the sinner, too. Who does the Lord abhor? The man of bloodshed and deceit, not just the bloodshed and deceit. You are erroneously trying to divorce the sinner from the sin. Your false view of man has automatically given you a false view of God.
16 There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.[Proverbs 6]
These are speaking of the man as well as the sins they commit. Hands that shed innocent blood is referring to both the murder and murderer. A false witness who utters lies is referring to both the lies and the liar. The one who spreads strife(discord) is referring to both the strife and the one causing the strife. You can not divorce them from each other.
Then you said in a previous post that God’s wrath is upon sin. A nice way to twist scripture there. That’s not what it says at all.
”He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him”.[John 3:36]
Notice, the wrath of God abides on him, the lost sinner, not his sin.
And getting back to mercy.
So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.[Romans 9:18] And Paul got that from And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”[Exodus 33:19]
God is merciful with a # of God-hating, rebellious ppl, but you scoff at that. If He doesn’t play by your rules, well, He isn’t worthy of you, your praise, and your worship.
Now, no more thinly veiled, cowardly “we’re not saved” posts from you. Just come out and tell us we’re lost. You haven’t the nerve to say it, but in cowardice, you post it in thinly veiled insults.
Law and Grace...
Unfortunately so many don't know the gospel, or edit it to their purposes. It's pretty shameful, actually.
Listen to this young street preacher get heckled by a little corrupted girl being coached by her corrupted parents:
Nothing the guy said was incorrect, and his attitude was loving:
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Does anyone doubt the radical corruption that is expressed through this little girl?
http://www.youtube]hAEIc6gpIzk
I imagine the free-willers are having a good laugh at it, but I don't think it's funny. The young man is preaching the gospel, and describing their corruption to them, and they don't want to receive it. Well, that has a result.
I figure many young people did the same thing to Noah as he was preparing the ark for the saving of his family.
And, the youths in the days of Elisha that jeered him, later to be mauled by bears, probably had a similar attitude.
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Well, lets see what the word says about this.
ἢ τοῦ πλούτου τῆς χρηστότητος αὐτοῦ καὶ τῆς ἀνοχῆς καὶ τῆς μακροθυμίας καταφρονεῖς, ἀγνοῶν ὅτι τὸ χρηστὸν τοῦ θεοῦ εἰς μετάνοιάν σε ἄγει;[Romans 2:4]
This comes from ἄγω (ago) and it means...
1) to lead, take with one 1a) to lead by laying hold of, and this way to bring to the point of destination: of an animal 1b) to lead by accompanying to (into) a place 1c) to lead with one's self, attach to one's self as an attendant 1d) to conduct, bring 1e) to lead away, to a court of justice, magistrate, etc. 2) to lead, 2a) to lead, guide, direct 2b) to lead through, conduct to: to something 2c) to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind 3) to pass a day, keep or celebrate a feast, etc. 4) to go, depart
So, ἄγω,(ago) does not mean force, but to lead by laying hold of, lead by accompanying to (into) a place, to lead away, &c. In other words, ἄγω, means to effectually lead them to repentance.
ἢ τοῦ πλούτου τῆς χρηστότητος αὐτοῦ καὶ τῆς ἀνοχῆς καὶ τῆς μακροθυμίας καταφρονεῖς, ἀγνοῶν ὅτι τὸ χρηστὸν τοῦ θεοῦ εἰς μετάνοιάν σε ἄγει;[Romans 2:4]
So yes, God does not force us, but does lead us to repentance, and the Greek word ἄγω means to effectually lead them. In other words, when He leads someone to repentance, they come to repentance.
ἢ τοῦ πλούτου τῆς χρηστότητος αὐτοῦ καὶ τῆς ἀνοχῆς καὶ τῆς μακροθυμίας καταφρονεῖς, ἀγνοῶν ὅτι τὸ χρηστὸν τοῦ θεοῦ εἰς μετάνοιάν σε ἄγει;[Romans 2:4]
This comes from ἄγω (ago) and it means...
1) to lead, take with one 1a) to lead by laying hold of, and this way to bring to the point of destination: of an animal 1b) to lead by accompanying to (into) a place 1c) to lead with one's self, attach to one's self as an attendant 1d) to conduct, bring 1e) to lead away, to a court of justice, magistrate, etc. 2) to lead, 2a) to lead, guide, direct 2b) to lead through, conduct to: to something 2c) to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind 3) to pass a day, keep or celebrate a feast, etc. 4) to go, depart
So, ἄγω,(ago) does not mean force, but to lead by laying hold of, lead by accompanying to (into) a place, to lead away, &c. In other words, ἄγω, means to effectually lead them to repentance.
ἢ τοῦ πλούτου τῆς χρηστότητος αὐτοῦ καὶ τῆς ἀνοχῆς καὶ τῆς μακροθυμίας καταφρονεῖς, ἀγνοῶν ὅτι τὸ χρηστὸν τοῦ θεοῦ εἰς μετάνοιάν σε ἄγει;[Romans 2:4]
So yes, God does not force us, but does lead us to repentance, and the Greek word ἄγω means to effectually lead them. In other words, when He leads someone to repentance, they come to repentance.
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But the very next verse John wrote He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.[John 1:10] So, if the world did not know Him, obviously they did not recognize Him as the true Light. So I don’t think we can draw every man being every single person whoever lived. None know the Christ but by the word of God. They can know God as Creator as Romans 1:18ff teaches, but they can not know God as Savior but by the word of God.