Should unrepentant cohabitation (shacking up) result in church discipline and disfellowshipment?

I wear jeans...🤔

Perhaps one doesn't understand that if he is not Reformed, though, since they think God will simply exit the relationship at some point. Or, maybe they don't comprehend what union with Christ is about.

Easy question...

Should unrepentant cohabitation (shacking up), defined as enjoying the sexual benefits of marriage outside of marriage, be a cause for church discipline and disfellowshipment?

And, if someone is involved in it, and is allowed to stay within the fellowship, does that disqualify him as a teacher?

Additionally, how would your answer be affected if the person was not a member of the church, but was a regular attender long-term?

Here's why I am asking. I have a friend that I care about. He's attending some kind of Arminian church that apparently believes it is fine to cohabitate. The pastor knows about the situation, presumably, because his pastor is a facebook friend of both individuals.

The woman he is cohabitating with is also a member of this Arminian church.

I met the guy as I was working in a parachurch ministry related to recovery. He was one of the people I was attempting to help. To be honest, it's quite frustrating when someone seems to be making progress as a new believer, but then gets involved in something like that.

He is actually involved in addictions recovery (which was his main issue) with his church group. He goes into the jail environment and is involved in presenting lessons to them related to recovery.

Perhaps this is denomination-oriented. Is this normal in Arminian churches? I know that Reformed Baptist churches would discipline someone who was involved in this, due to their high view of God's law.

I find it bizarre that any church could be so blind that they don't know that cohabitation is a work of the flesh. And, I thought the guy was in good hands with this pastor. It seems like for all of the Arminian talk about holiness, to me, it is nothing but hot air.

another recruitment for cult of calvinism. this guy just cant help but make everything about reformed topic

It depends on what you mean by cohabitation. I appreciate what you said @Sackcloth-N-Ashes because it sort of explains why that was such a moral crossroads when I was considering this thing. In a platonic way of course. In the back of my mind though personally, when these choices presented themselves there was still an open door in some fashion to something. Either opening yourself up the possibility that it could occur if the right circumstances were present (and thereby having a "closet door") available but unlikely. It still would represent a certain lack of entertainment of sin regardless of actuation.

Even if that were not the case...I have always been interested in females non-sexually as well. I realize that's true for most here but just the simple joy of learning what it is like living with a female and learning about "girl things" as well as having non-sexual intimacy with a female would most likely NOT be off the table in such a situation. From clothing advice to sharing meals together...perhaps going shopping or even talking in a rather intimate setting.

I always felt like intimacy was between just a wife and a husband in "closed quarters". It's cool that there's some ideology out there that explains this frustration and slight anger and not being able to really experience anything of that nature with anyone but my immediate family. It makes sense...



The only question I really have for this thread is how to implement said discipline in the church. I think that the Lord WILL do it privately if it is not conducted but I do think we have a responsibility. I've just been at a loss on how to properly effect this. Even in churches where I'm in agreement with most everything, this still seems to be lacking.

Is seems to me that the prevailing idea is that if we just draw near enough to the Lord then all of that will just fall off of us. I've certainly seen that but at the same time you have more stubborn people (like myself) who do need stern rebukes. I don't think the Lord particularly likes getting personally when a system exists that he designed. That gets pretty deep and kind of scary for me at times but rebellion can run pretty deep even if our heart is for him. It's not clear to me at present due to my own stubbornness. Times where I felt like I could have simply just shared with someone that I was going through a temptation but I instead exalted myself by saying that I don't need their help only the Lord's, all the while knowing that I was ignoring conviction, even if it seemed so trivial.

Anyway, yes I do think it's necessary, it's just how to effect that in a case specific way. Especially when you have people that are fairly clandestine. Convincing themselves that of course the Lord sees our secret sins and we can just confess to him privately...this last part has somehow become muddled for me personally...anyone see what I'm trying to say and will help? I seem to consider so many angles at once sometimes in regard to what appears to be a simple question. Thanks

Easy question...

With respect to everything you say, and the fact that you care about your friend, you have no idea what he is doing or not doing with this woman, and I don't think it is any of your business. This poor woman is in a very vulnerable position at present. He may just be living there to support her. And during times of great grief, the lines get blurred, people get confused etc and don't know what they want. My prayers go out to her. And I don't think it is any of your business at this time.
And may I say from someone who works in mental health, your friend will not thank you for bringing up a very personal, intimate topic when this poor woman is grieving for her wee girl.
"However, I will very likely talk to him about it and tell him what a big disappointment this is to me personally. I had hopes that perhaps a few people were helped by the parachurch ministry activity, and he was actually someone that I had a lot of hopes for."
You say it's a disappointment for you personally. I reckon you are projecting your own feelings of disappointment onto your friend for not becoming your prodigy by the sounds of it. I think you are more annoyed that he's not become what you think he should become. He sounds like he's doing good work already, & doing the best that he can, whilst supporting this lady and her daughter too.
This situation isn't about you or him - it's about a grieving family who need time to sort themselves out.
What about just offering your condolences and saying you will be there to support them all in any way you can? This is going to be a very stressful time for everybody with a funeral looming.
I'd leave the cohabitation talk for another time.
And I would commend your friend for the work that he is doing.
I often wonder what has happened to Christian forgiveness & charity in this world. Yes Christians have higher standards than others (or are supposed to anyway). I am no Bible expert, but doesn't it say in the Bible that we should "correct others gently and with forgiveness?"
I think you are getting too upset & righteous over something that would be better left alone for now.
Also I have cohabited with men in the past just as friends, and have never done anything with them unless I was going out with them, so I do think it's extremely judgemental just to assume things when you have no facts. Maybe your friend is happy in his church & religion, & happy with what he is presently doing.
Maybe they will get married much later on - who knows?
I don't think it's for others to judge, just on an assumption.

I wasn't planning on bringing it up during the grieving period.

However, I think it's naive to assume they aren't intimately involved, seeing as she refers to him as her "boyfriend" and they live in the same house. As others have noted, Christians are supposed to avoid the appearance of evil and to be above reproach.

Actually, they aren't a family if the two aren't married. They are simply two individuals living in the same house.

How is happiness relevant? Happiness is found in obedience to the LORD according to Psalm 1.

I agree that I don't know what they are doing. Since he's been avoiding me these four months, I'm pretty sure it's a sexual, cohabitating relationship.

And, perhaps you are right. Perhaps I should have no expectations of someone who claims to be a Christian, including myself. Maybe it is unreasonable to assume that they would be uninterested in obedience to God. However, I'm naive that way.

For clarification, I did not tell her off or be unkind. Only warned and withdrew.

Also, one might not view warning and withdrawing from a person in sin as helping them. But I know when I have sinned and I feel the absence of God's pleasure and presence (though He hasn't actually gone), it really causes me to want it back. One time my Mom lovingly used this principle on me when I was wandering. It was effective. It helped.

I think withdrawing fellowship can be helpful sometimes, as the person isn't experiencing the presence of God in their lives through the Christian who has withdrawn from them in a corrective measure.

Even if the person is no longer in the fellowship of the church, I think they can experience the benefit of God's presence in their lives through the believer who refuses to withdraw fellowship.

I realize these circumstances are tricky though. And, admittedly I am emotional about it as I viewed him as being someone who was responsive in the midst of a lot of others who were not. It is something I'm considering in regards to the fruitfulness of my personal ministry..whether I should even continue it.

But I don't have all the facts yet and can't really gracefully get them, given the death of the little girl.

Yes, perhaps it is not always the best thing to do to withdraw fellowship! But under God's guidance, it can be a tool He uses to bring that person back. I think this can be overlooked in our tolerant, anything-goes society.

May I ask what exactly you were wondering if you should continue?

I think withdrawing fellowship can be helpful sometimes, as the person isn't experiencing the presence of God in their lives through the Christian who has withdrawn from them in a corrective measure.

Even if the person is no longer in the fellowship of the church, I think they can experience the benefit of God's presence in their lives through the believer who refuses to withdraw fellowship.

I realize these circumstances are tricky though. And, admittedly I am emotional about it as I viewed him as being someone who was responsive in the midst of a lot of others who were not. It is something I'm considering in regards to the fruitfulness of my personal ministry..whether I should even continue it.

But I don't have all the facts yet and can't really gracefully get them, given the death of the little girl.

🙂 You said "It is something I'm considering in regards to the fruitfulness of my personal ministry..whether I should even continue it."
Did you mean that you are considering whether you should even continue your personal ministry? Sorry if I am being dense. Lol

Sorry..I'm not sure what your reference is, in terms of "continuing".

I am drawing a blank.

I guess you could be talking about continuing our friendship. I am not planning on backing off from being his friend, but at the same time, when I have time alone with him, after a sufficient waiting period, I will likely address the issue with him.

It is possible there is some other explanation but I know for sure that she says he's her boyfriend, and he told me they are living together. In the USA, "living together" means cohabitating in an intimate sexual relationship.

I am not sure if it conveys the same meaning in your culture.

Yes, perhaps it is not always the best thing to do to withdraw fellowship! But under God's guidance, it can be a tool He uses to bring that person back. I think this can be overlooked in our tolerant, anything-goes society.

May I ask what exactly you were wondering if you should continue?

No, actually you are not dense. I have a faulty memory. I should have remembered this as I submitted it today.

So, the situation is that I am on "sabbatical" from this parachurch ministry due to some frustrations I've had. I can't fully discuss them, but a portion of the frustration involves the lack of fruit in the people that I was helping. Admittedly they are a high risk group (addicts for the most part) anyways. My approach has been to lead them to a relationship with Christ, if they don't have one, and the tremendous resources for the individual whose identity is in Christ. My co-workers in this ministry have different views (some are charismatic or Pentecostals, others are KJV Only, others are prophecy nuts). My focus is on salvation alone and the benefits that come from it.

So, my frustration is the lack of positive results. I have a friend who is a Christian counselor, though, and he told me in the last day that I needed to keep my focus on Jesus and not on the results. I know that I'm giving them good instruction, as much of it was guided by my friend, and he knows what he's talking about. It is largely related to what it means to have a gospel identity.