Should unrepentant cohabitation (shacking up) result in church discipline and disfellowshipment?

[UnitedWithChrist]

.....and then, there's the story (more true, then one may think, these days) of 2 christian retired persons living together, on "fixed incomes." She, off her husbands pension and SS. And he, living off SS only.

Upon "marriage", she would lose her deceased husbands pension and SS, as she, herself was not eligible, for any benefits of her own "gainful employment", as she was a "house Mom", and hadn't worked a day in her life.

Should these people be "dis-associated" from "the church" as well?

Oh!
Ya mean there are "exceptions?"

I agree, that what you are saying are "weaknesses/desires" of flesh, and we should not "love this life, even to death."

But, how far should "believers" press this issue that "binds" one "to the flesh", thus "to the world?"

They don't have to live together, or get married, or have sex.

They can be friends.

Their choice.

If they think that they are financially better off living separately and drawing their own benefits, then it seems like friendship is the viable option.

Personally I don't think that pensions should be written up that way, though, but if they are married and living together, they are saving the rent expense, so there is a net savings.

I know what my decision would be, and they are accountable to God themselves.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

For those of you who don't know "Prison Lingo", the "PC" he is referring to is Protective Custody. Those prisoners are confined in a separate location from other prisoners for a variety of reasons that would put their safety (even their lives) in danger if the average prisoner could get to them..

A lot of times, they are child molesters or sex offenders. Some have informed on others, and must be kept separate because they might get beat up by the other person, or one of his friends. Some just can't relate well to others, or may have nervous conditions.

If I was in jail, I would prefer the protective custody area, except for the fact that some of them are child molesters. While I believe anyone can be forgiven from their sin, regardless how distasteful, I probably wouldn't want to be in the same cell with a child molester.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

They don't have to live together, or get married, or have sex.

They can be friends.

Their choice.

If they think that they are financially better off living separately and drawing their own benefits, then it seems like friendship is the viable option.

Personally I don't think that pensions should be written up that way, though, but if they are married and living together, they are saving the rent expense, so there is a net savings.

I know what my decision would be, and they are accountable to God themselves.

By the way, I used to belong to a parachurch ministry where an older United Methodist pastor posed a similar situation to me. I told him plainly I didn't think there was any reason for such a situation.

I believe it would be a proof of true love if the couple married anyways, and gave up the former husband's pension. But, at the same time, the man and woman could simply remain platonic friends. Especially if they are older, sex seems to be something that is expendable. I am 56 and I do without sexual relationships. If they are younger, they can marry.

If they are living together unmarried, they are being an extremely poor example to their families and the community, if they claim faith...assuming they are saved to start with. I am not claiming that real believers won't make any mistakes like that, but it's definitely a horrible example at best.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

People with short hair & jeans shouldn't go to church?? How is this a sin?
You can wear nice, dress jeans - many young kids do.
Jesus preached in the fields in the dirt with his sandals on & a long robe & long hair.
We shouldn't be judging people on their clothes etc. Some people don't have alot of money for new clothes or hair cuts. And if you turn away younger ones with nose rings, they won't go to church & will turn away from religion instead.
There was a Youtube vid on not long ago where a new pastor hadn't met any of his congregation yet. He sat outside the church and acted homeless, wore old clothes etc. From memory, he wasn't allowed inside or was asked to sit at the back & wasn't treated very well. Imagine the astonishment of the congregation when he got up to the pulpit, and told them he was that homeless man, & that they all needed to show more Christian charity.
Not saying there shouldn't be some standards, but maybe we should remember Jesus example & accept all who turn to Christ.

That reminds me a bit of Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel. The church he pastored at refused to let hippies and other such in (during the 70s). The excuse was the dirty hippies will get the carpets dirty. So he told them to tear the carpets out.
That didn't go over too well. Long story short he started Calvary Chapel and allowed anyone in. Clean or dirty. In church clothes or barefoot.

I've spoken to people who were refused entry to church for not wearing the right clothes. People that went seeking answers. Those people turned against the church and God.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

People with short hair & jeans shouldn't go to church?? How is this a sin?
You can wear nice, dress jeans - many young kids do.
Jesus preached in the fields in the dirt with his sandals on & a long robe & long hair.
We shouldn't be judging people on their clothes etc. Some people don't have alot of money for new clothes or hair cuts. And if you turn away younger ones with nose rings, they won't go to church & will turn away from religion instead.
There was a Youtube vid on not long ago where a new pastor hadn't met any of his congregation yet. He sat outside the church and acted homeless, wore old clothes etc. From memory, he wasn't allowed inside or was asked to sit at the back & wasn't treated very well. Imagine the astonishment of the congregation when he got up to the pulpit, and told them he was that homeless man, & that they all needed to show more Christian charity.
Not saying there shouldn't be some standards, but maybe we should remember Jesus example & accept all who turn to Christ.

Some churches Do teach that women wearing pants of any kind is a sin. Pants are viewed as men's clothing, thus wearing pants as a woman is seen as cross dressing.
Usually they also require ankle length skirts as the only option.

 

[kaylagrl]

That reminds me a bit of Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel. The church he pastored at refused to let hippies and other such in (during the 70s). The excuse was the dirty hippies will get the carpets dirty. So he told them to tear the carpets out.
That didn't go over too well. Long story short he started Calvary Chapel and allowed anyone in. Clean or dirty. In church clothes or barefoot.

I've spoken to people who were refused entry to church for not wearing the right clothes. People that went seeking answers. Those people turned against the church and God.

I had assumed the OP was talking about Christian couples, not un-churched or new Christians.

 

[presidente]

Some churches Do teach that women wearing pants of any kind is a sin. Pants are viewed as men's clothing, thus wearing pants as a woman is seen as cross dressing.
Usually they also require ankle length skirts as the only option.

We can ask the men in the church if they will wear women's jeans for us, since they consider them to be men's clothing.

 

[kaylagrl]

Some churches Do teach that women wearing pants of any kind is a sin. Pants are viewed as men's clothing, thus wearing pants as a woman is seen as cross dressing.
Usually they also require ankle length skirts as the only option.

Ha! A pastor friend told us once of how he told a woman that came to church that her pants were not appropriate. He went into this whole story, he was a new, young pastor and he met the young lady on the way out the door and told her discretely that pants were not appropriate. Next Sunday she came in large as life wearing what the pastor called a "gownless evening strap". He said I met her at the end of the service and said " go back to wearing the pants". lol

 

[presidente]

Ha! A pastor friend told us once of how he told a woman that came to church that her pants were not appropriate. He went into this whole story, he was a new, young pastor and he met the young lady on the way out the door and told her discretely that pants were not appropriate. Next Sunday she came in large as life wearing what the pastor called a "gownless evening strap". He said I met her at the end of the service and said " go back to wearing the pants". lol

I heard there was an old preacher many years ago who came into a church and was offended at the women wearing pants. Without realizing how it would sound, he said, "If we could get these women to stop wearing pants, we could really have church."

 

[kaylagrl]

I heard there was an old preacher many years ago who came into a church and was offended at the women wearing pants. Without realizing how it would sound, he said, "If we could get these women to stop wearing pants, we could really have church."

Oops faux pas! Bet that went over like a lead balloon.

 

[presidente]

Oops faux pas! Bet that went over like a lead balloon.

I also heard there was a missionary who arrived in a part of Africa where the women wore grass skirts and no tops. He preached they should cover their breasts, too. The next time they met, the women had pulled up their grass skirts leaving the bottom parts exposed. He told them to pull the skirts down.

In Papua, there are tribes where women wear grass skirts and the men wear an article of clothing made out of a gourd called a koteka and a string. That's it. But there was one church there where you knew who the pastor was. When you go to church, you know who the pastor is because he doesn't wear anything but a koteka and a string.... and a neck tie.

 

[kaylagrl]

I also heard there was a missionary who arrived in a part of Africa where the women wore grass skirts and no tops. He preached they should cover their breasts, too. The next time they met, the women had pulled up their grass skirts leaving the bottom parts exposed. He told them to pull the skirts down.

In Papua, there are tribes where women wear grass skirts and the men wear an article of clothing made out of a gourd called a koteka and a string. That's it. But there was one church there where you knew who the pastor was. When you go to church, you know who the pastor is because he doesn't wear anything but a koteka and a string.... and a neck tie.

Rofl a necktie. Hilarious. I don't think that's a service I could attend. I'm not exactly a germaphobe but my mother was a nurse so cleanliness was next to Godliness in our house. Pretty sure I couldn't sit where others sat bottomless. lol

 

[presidente]

Rofl a necktie. Hilarious. I don't think that's a service I could attend. I'm not exactly a germaphobe but my mother was a nurse so cleanliness was next to Godliness in our house. Pretty sure I couldn't sit where others sat bottomless. lol

What if it was on the dirt?

 

[kaylagrl]

What if it was on the dirt?

Yeah,I think I could handle that. My German Shepard and I spend lots of time together in dirt. rofl

 

[Angela53510]

I voted yes, but I think we do need to teach new Christians, before we disfellowship them. The world is so accepting of people cohabiting, it might take time for them understand why it is sinful.

I'm dealing with this with a FB friend. She is in the UK and has been saved for 5 years from a Sikh background, attends a Church of England and is living with her boyfriend. I have talked with her gently, and she finally agreed it was time to get married.

The next thing she does is find out she will lose her widow's pension if she remarries. (Her first husband was a firm atheist who died of cancer!). She told me they were never going to marry. She loved her boyfriend, but she wasn't going to lose her source of income.

Now, she hasn't contacted. me in a month. So I contacted her and she said she was very depressed. Not sure why - because she couldn't get married? Or because she knew what she is doing is sin?

Please pray for her. She really loves Jesus a lot, having to walk away from her family, culture and religion. But she is stubborn, and she needs to realize what she is doing is displeasing to God.

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Some churches Do teach that women wearing pants of any kind is a sin. Pants are viewed as men's clothing, thus wearing pants as a woman is seen as cross dressing.
Usually they also require ankle length skirts as the only option.

That is up for anyone's own mind to be convinced of as Paul says. What I say is: There are jeans for men and women.

 

[presidente]

I voted yes, but I think we do need to teach new Christians, before we disfellowship them. The world is so accepting of people cohabiting, it might take time for them understand why it is sinful.

I'm dealing with this with a FB friend. She is in the UK and has been saved for 5 years from a Sikh background, attends a Church of England and is living with her boyfriend. I have talked with her gently, and she finally agreed it was time to get married.

The next thing she does is find out she will lose her widow's pension if she remarries. (Her first husband was a firm atheist who died of cancer!). She told me they were never going to marry. She loved her boyfriend, but she wasn't going to lose her source of income.

Now, she hasn't contacted. me in a month. So I contacted her and she said she was very depressed. Not sure why - because she couldn't get married? Or because she knew what she is doing is sin?

Please pray for her. She really loves Jesus a lot, having to walk away from her family, culture and religion. But she is stubborn, and she needs to realize what she is doing is displeasing to God.

There are similar cases in the US where retirement funds disincentivize remarriage. If there is common law marriage though, shacking up might disqualify them.

I belueve we should apply the principles of Matthew 18 and Galatians 6:1 before expelling people. Matthew 18 speaks of being able to 'hear the church', so that sounds to be like the congregation exhorting the individual to repent. (Who invented the 'intervention'?) not just a formal meeting where clergy kicks out the offender out. And not doing so behind closed doors without the church gathered.

In I Corinthians 5 the church gathered with the power of Jesus is to expel the fornicator, not one leader. The same in Matthew 18.

In Mathew 18 the church gathering is the last step after others bring rebuke. The individual can still repent before the church.

 

[presidente]

Hopefully correction and rebukement will lead to restorationment and not disfellowshipment.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

That is up for anyone's own mind to be convinced of as Paul says. What I say is: There are jeans for men and women.

I didn't state whether or not I believed it, but rather pointed out a fact.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

I had assumed the OP was talking about Christian couples, not un-churched or new Christians.

But I wasn't responding to the OP.