3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
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Snide innuendo? Are you serious? What did I say that was snide or innuendo?
Its kind of funny. You say "Here is a brick building".
Its obvious its a brick building. Its a statement of fact.
But then someone else says "that's not a brick building". "It has windows in it".
And you say "well brick buildings have windows in them, silly".
And then "Well you don't have to get mean with your sarcasm and snide innuendos"
What??? Really??? I haven't even started the sarcasm yet.
Its kind of funny. You say "Here is a brick building".
Its obvious its a brick building. Its a statement of fact.
But then someone else says "that's not a brick building". "It has windows in it".
And you say "well brick buildings have windows in them, silly".
And then "Well you don't have to get mean with your sarcasm and snide innuendos"
What??? Really??? I haven't even started the sarcasm yet.
so putting those two passages from Hebrews together, He tasted death for every man but did not bear the sins of all?
is that incompatible with His atonement being sufficient for all but not applied to all?
is there something about this that makes the idea that His atonement is functionally limited to those it actually effectually saves impossible to reconcile with His crucifixion?
is that incompatible with His atonement being sufficient for all but not applied to all?
is there something about this that makes the idea that His atonement is functionally limited to those it actually effectually saves impossible to reconcile with His crucifixion?
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that's not true.
um, no we're not:
you have said it.
sin was in the world before the law
that statement is incompatible with "there was no sin without the law."
it literally says exactly the opposite of how you interpreted it.
you went on:
there it is in again:
sin was in the world before the law came
that is exactly contradictory to "there was no sin before the law came"
you said it third time, yourself:
there was sin in the world before the law was given.
totally not 'there was no sin before the law'
um, no we're not:
you have said it.
sin was in the world before the law
that statement is incompatible with "there was no sin without the law."
it literally says exactly the opposite of how you interpreted it.
you went on:
there it is in again:
sin was in the world before the law came
that is exactly contradictory to "there was no sin before the law came"
you said it third time, yourself:
there was sin in the world before the law was given.
totally not 'there was no sin before the law'
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did He bear the sins of many or bear the sins of the whole world?
am i reading this right, scripture says "many" and you say "the whole world" ?
From Hebrews 2:9 + 19:28 ((thanks for pointing out the other one @Nehemiah6)) it looks like scripture is saying He died for the whole world but only bore the sins of 'many' - who are these many? all people? those whom He saves only or also those whom He does not? does He bear the sins of some who He does not also sanctify?
am i reading this right, scripture says "many" and you say "the whole world" ?
From Hebrews 2:9 + 19:28 ((thanks for pointing out the other one @Nehemiah6)) it looks like scripture is saying He died for the whole world but only bore the sins of 'many' - who are these many? all people? those whom He saves only or also those whom He does not? does He bear the sins of some who He does not also sanctify?
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Romans 4:15 15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 5:12-14 12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned- 13To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone's account where there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
Romans 5:12-14 12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned- 13To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone's account where there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
to be sure sin existed before the law. even existing in the world.
in the world, just looked over: not attributed.
cause and effect:
cause: sin
effect: law
cause: law
effect: sin be made all the more sinful
the cause precedes the effect.
sin was in the world before the law.
not, 'by the law is sin'
in the world, just looked over: not attributed.
The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.
(Romans 5:20)
Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions
(Galatians 3:19)
added because of transgression. (Romans 5:20)
Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions
(Galatians 3:19)
cause and effect:
cause: sin
effect: law
cause: law
effect: sin be made all the more sinful
the cause precedes the effect.
sin was in the world before the law.
for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(Romans 3:20)
by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20)
not, 'by the law is sin'
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Jesus bore the sins of the whole world on the cross that whosoever believeth in Him will not perish in their sins but shall have immortal life.
The scripture says many and whole world.
The Book of John chapter 1 verse 29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
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yes.
he said: to be sure sin was in the world before the law
it is incorrect to say "there was no sin before the law"
it is incorrect to say "without the law there is no sin"
i'm not sure you comprehend what i'm saying?
the law was added
the world existed before the law.
sin existed before the law.
sin existed in the world before the law.
he said: to be sure sin was in the world before the law
it is incorrect to say "there was no sin before the law"
it is incorrect to say "without the law there is no sin"
i'm not sure you comprehend what i'm saying?
the law was added
the world existed before the law.
sin existed before the law.
sin existed in the world before the law.
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"sin is not counted where there is no law.” (Romans 5:13)
You are incorrect. Sin did not exist before the law. As we're informed in Genesis. God's law was created there when He told Adam and Eve to not eat of the fruit of the tree of life. Thou shalt not.... That was God's first law in the paradise garden where there was no sin.
Eve did eat of the forbidden tree. And then she induced Adam to eat of that same apple from whence she had eaten. And we are told, due to that, that by one man sin entered the world , see the Book of Romans chapter 5, that God had created prior and after all was created He looked upon it and called it good.
You are incorrect. Sin did not exist before the law. As we're informed in Genesis. God's law was created there when He told Adam and Eve to not eat of the fruit of the tree of life. Thou shalt not.... That was God's first law in the paradise garden where there was no sin.
Eve did eat of the forbidden tree. And then she induced Adam to eat of that same apple from whence she had eaten. And we are told, due to that, that by one man sin entered the world , see the Book of Romans chapter 5, that God had created prior and after all was created He looked upon it and called it good.
A lot of the time when you assume what someone is thinking, you are assuming wrongly, which may be the case my case in this instance. I was assuming that you were thinking that "the kingdom of heaven" in verse 21 was referring to eternal heaven. In my thinking it means the church that Jesus set up when he was on earth, which is his kingdom, that he is king of, also the husband of. If you interpret it as eternal heaven it will not harmonize with other scriptures. According to the scriptures that teach church discipline some that will be in eternal heaven will not be allowed within the church. Doing the will of God is not the cause of our eternal salvation, but a product of already being an heir of eternal life.
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*sigh*
sin existed long before the law.
the Bible does not say "with the law came the existence of sin"
it says with the law came the knowledge of sin
the Bible does not say "without the law sin does not exist"
it says without the law sin is not accounted
For sin was in the world before the law was given
(Romans 5:13)
how does this not click for you yet? sin existed long before the law.
the Bible does not say "with the law came the existence of sin"
it says with the law came the knowledge of sin
the Bible does not say "without the law sin does not exist"
it says without the law sin is not accounted
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hmm you have a completely different definition of "the law" than what the NT has.
maybe that's the issue: you don't comprehend "sin was in the world before the law" because you don't think there has ever been a world before the law?
the law was not given until 430 years after Abraham. Galatians 3:17.
but when did Satan first sin?
how?
what sin?
maybe that's the issue: you don't comprehend "sin was in the world before the law" because you don't think there has ever been a world before the law?
the law was added
(Galatians 3:19)
the law was not given until 430 years after Abraham. Galatians 3:17.
but when did Satan first sin?
how?
what sin?
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Have you ever heard of the simplicity of Christ? Psalms 53:2 is a very short statement and plainly says what it means. I think you may be trying too hard to read, by your own intelligence, with your heart as well as your mind. Jesus tells us if we want to be his disciple we have to deny ourselves and follow him.
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Amen. . . For who has resisted the will of the father ? He who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure is of one mind, he always does whatsoever His soul pleases .
My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined. Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Job 2311--16
My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined. Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Job 2311--16
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There is no greater peace and comfort given than is given in the understanding of the doctrine that Jesus taught, but if the way that you interpret the scriptures gives you peace and comfort enough, then stick with what you think they mean. As I have told you before, I can tell. by the evidence you have shown, that you are one of God's elect, and heaven will be your eternal destination.
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