3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists

[Whispered]

Yes, of course.

Those who are not Atoned for are condemned.

Therefore only believers are atoned for by the Blood of the Lamb.


If everyone was already Atoned for then there is no reason to preach Christ, there is no reason for the Gospel, there is no reason for Christianity at all.

Everyone will just go to heaven because they have been Perfectly Atoned for by the Blood of the Lamb. They have no sin with which to judge against them. It has been paid.

Jesus died on the cross and took the sins of the whole world upon himself there. He tasted spiritual death so that we would be able to be spiritually alive to the word of the Good News. He paid our price. And all we have to do is believe! "He himself is the atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world’s"

If it were Calvin's way of that sacrifice it would read, He himself is the atonement for the sins of those whom the Father selected to be saved. And not for the whole world.
Therein is the difference between God's truth and John Calvin.

Law, Sin, Death. Jesus paid it all for us.

The Book of Romans chapter 7 and verse 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ; that ye should be joined to another, even to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the [a]sinful passions, which were through the law, wrought in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Howbeit, I had not known sin, except through [b]the law: for I had not known [c]coveting, except the law had said, [d]Thou shalt not [e]covet: 8 but sin, finding occasion, wrought in me through the commandment all manner of [f]coveting: for apart from [g]the law sin is dead. 9 And I was alive apart from [h]the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died; 10 and the commandment, which was unto life, this I found to be unto death: 11 for sin, finding occasion, through the commandment beguiled me, and through it slew me. 12 So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good. 13 Did then that which is good become death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might be shown to be sin, by working death to me through that which is good;—that through the commandment sin might become exceeding sinful.

Read full chapter
Footnotes

1. Romans 7:5 Greek passions of sins.
2. Romans 7:7 Or, law
3. Romans 7:7 Or, lust
4. Romans 7:7 Ex. 20:17; Dt. 5:21.
5. Romans 7:7 Or, lust
6. Romans 7:8 Or, lust
7. Romans 7:8 Or, law
8. Romans 7:9 Or, law

 

[Grandpa]

You could have placed another Scripture from Hebrews to maintain the correct balance (Heb 2:9): But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Just ignore the Arminians. What we see here are two different contexts. In chapter 9 Paul is speaking about Christians "those who eagerly wait for Him". These are the "many". But in chapter 2, which is dealing with all mankind, Christ tasted death "for every man". Which means every person, not just males. This takes us right back to verse 6 in the same chapter: But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man [mankind], that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

When we take these two verses and harmonize them, we see that while Christ died for the sins of the whole world, not all are saved, but many are saved, and those are the ones who eagerly wait for Him.

What do they need saving from if Christ died for the sins of the whole world?

 

[Grandpa]

Jesus died on the cross and took the sins of the whole world upon himself there. He tasted spiritual death so that we would be able to be spiritually alive to the word of the Good News. He paid our price. And all we have to do is believe! "He himself is the atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world’s"

If it were Calvin's way of that sacrifice it would read, He himself is the atonement for the sins of those whom the Father selected to be saved. And not for the whole world.
Therein is the difference between God's truth and John Calvin.

Law, Sin, Death. Jesus paid it all for us.

The Book of Romans chapter 7 and verse 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ; that ye should be joined to another, even to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the [a]sinful passions, which were through the law, wrought in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Howbeit, I had not known sin, except through [b]the law: for I had not known [c]coveting, except the law had said, [d]Thou shalt not [e]covet: 8 but sin, finding occasion, wrought in me through the commandment all manner of [f]coveting: for apart from [g]the law sin is dead. 9 And I was alive apart from [h]the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died; 10 and the commandment, which was unto life, this I found to be unto death: 11 for sin, finding occasion, through the commandment beguiled me, and through it slew me. 12 So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good. 13 Did then that which is good become death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might be shown to be sin, by working death to me through that which is good;—that through the commandment sin might become exceeding sinful.

Read full chapter
Footnotes

1. Romans 7:5 Greek passions of sins.
2. Romans 7:7 Or, law
3. Romans 7:7 Or, lust
4. Romans 7:7 Ex. 20:17; Dt. 5:21.
5. Romans 7:7 Or, lust
6. Romans 7:8 Or, lust
7. Romans 7:8 Or, law
8. Romans 7:9 Or, law

If all the sins of the whole world have been atoned for then what is the point of Salvation?

What do people need to be saved from?

What is the point of the Gospel, or even of Christianity, at all, since all sins are already atoned for???

Why do you feel the need to show people that the Lord Jesus is the Saviour if there is no need for Salvation?



Did you just not think this all the way through?

 

[Melach]

If all the sins of the whole world have been atoned for then what is the point of Salvation?

What do people need to be saved from?

What is the point of the Gospel, or even of Christianity, at all, since all sins are already atoned for???

Why do you feel the need to show people that the Lord Jesus is the Saviour if there is no need for Salvation?



Did you just not think this all the way through?

this is again this horrible argument i mentioned earlier. "if Jesus died for all then all are saved". just like in ot. just because atonement was made doesnt mean it does anything unless they humbled themselves on the day of atonement.

just like here, if you dont believe in Jesus it doesnt matter what atonement is going on.
just like in John 3 where it bring us back to the brozen serpent in the desert, the atonement was made, all were sick, but only those who looked on it were healed.

very simple no need for calvinist false logic . i ask back from you, did you just not think this all the way through? or did you just listen to the calvinist pastor say that and it sounded cool?

 

[Grandpa]

this is again this horrible argument i mentioned earlier. "if Jesus died for all then all are saved". just like in ot. just because atonement was made doesnt mean it does anything unless they humbled themselves on the day of atonement.

just like here, if you dont believe in Jesus it doesnt matter what atonement is going on.
just like in John 3 where it bring us back to the brozen serpent in the desert, the atonement was made, all were sick, but only those who looked on it were healed.

very simple no need for calvinist false logic . i ask back from you, did you just not think this all the way through? or did you just listen to the calvinist pastor say that and it sounded cool?

I guess you weren't listening? Maybe you didn't reflect...?

If all sins are atoned for what do people need to be saved from?

Do you just not understand the question?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

this is again this horrible argument i mentioned earlier. "if Jesus died for all then all are saved". just like in ot. just because atonement was made doesnt mean it does anything unless they humbled themselves on the day of atonement.

just like here, if you dont believe in Jesus it doesnt matter what atonement is going on.
just like in John 3 where it bring us back to the brozen serpent in the desert, the atonement was made, all were sick, but only those who looked on it were healed.

very simple no need for calvinist false logic . i ask back from you, did you just not think this all the way through? or did you just listen to the calvinist pastor say that and it sounded cool?

John answers the question

belief vs unbelief

jesus did not die for the sin of unbelief

he who see and believes has eternal life,

he who does not belief shall not see life, but the wrath of god abides,

 

[Whispered]

If all the sins of the whole world have been atoned for then what is the point of Salvation?

What do people need to be saved from?

What is the point of the Gospel, or even of Christianity, at all, since all sins are already atoned for???

Why do you feel the need to show people that the Lord Jesus is the Saviour if there is no need for Salvation?



Did you just not think this all the way through?

Oh my goodness.

Did you not think what you just wrote through? God answered your question generations ago and put right what you fail to understand.

1 John 2:2 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Melach]

I guess you weren't listening? Maybe you didn't reflect...?

If all sins are atoned for what do people need to be saved from?

Do you just not understand the question?

we need to be saved frmo our sins. nothing is forgiven until you believe. no matter what verse is picked out of context like reconciled the world to himself, ive heard all the verses.

 

[Grandpa]

Oh my goodness.

Did you not think what you just wrote through? God answered your question generations ago and put right what you fail to understand.

1 John 2:2 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Wow! You truly don't understand?

What is the point of a Saviour if there is nothing to be saved from?


Obviously the sins of the whole world means all Saved people who believe in Christ, from then til now. And DOES NOT mean all sins are now gone from everyone in the whole world.

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

His people being those who believe in Him. Meaning all the people in the Whole World, past, present and future who believe in Christ.

 

[Grandpa]

we need to be saved frmo our sins. nothing is forgiven until you believe. no matter what verse is picked out of context like reconciled the world to himself, ive heard all the verses.

We need to be saved from our sins. Nothing is forgiven until we believe.

So the Atonement is Only for Believers. Only Believers are saved from their sin.


That wasn't so hard.

 

[Whispered]

What do they need saving from if Christ died for the sins of the whole world?

“And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God, does not have life.” The Book of 1st John chapter 5 and verses 11 thru 12

John 3 and verse 16 is a synopsis of the entire mission of Jesus Christ.
Here added with harmonious verses so as to deliver you to the full import of the Salvation message. I pray you receive it with the open heart from which it was shared.
Linked to the comparative scriptures in the American Standard Version and the Mounce Interlinear Greek Version. One can click on the word in the passage in the Greek version so as to be taken to the corresponding Concordance that explains the meaning of that particular word.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20 For every one that [f]doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be [g]reproved. 21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, [h]that they have been wrought in God.

 

[Whispered]

Wow! You truly don't understand?

I admit that I am at a loss for why you are so hostile and unaware of the truth of Jesus Salvation message. Even when it is presented to you here and exists in any Bible.

It is as God see's fit to understand. I will pray for you.

 

[Whispered]

We need to be saved from our sins. Nothing is forgiven until we believe.

So the Atonement is Only for Believers. Only Believers are saved from their sin.


That wasn't so hard.

It appears it was given you have resorted to sarcasm and snide innuendo in order to arrive at this point. When in truth, nothing you have said here was ever omitted in this discussion. It was all right there in God's word that was shared in this thread.
For whatever reason, God only knows, you did not see that.

 

[Grandpa]

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

People must be thinking of the Atonement that the Lord Jesus has made for those who believe in Him as the blood of bulls and goats.

But this is NOT what the Lords Atonement has done for us. The Lords Atonement is Much Greater.

Hebrews 10:10-14
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Like I said earlier, if everyones sins are atoned for then everyone is saved, automatically. No need for salvation. No need to come to Christ.

But if the Atonement is only for Believers then everyone is NOT Saved Automatically. There IS a need for Salvation. There IS a need to come to Christ.

 

[Grandpa]

I admit that I am at a loss for why you are so hostile and unaware of the truth of Jesus Salvation message. Even when it is presented to you here and exists in any Bible.

It is as God see's fit to understand. I will pray for you.

You are saying that there is no need for the Lord Jesus Christ.

You thought that would be met with smiles and hugs?

 

[Grandpa]

“And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God, does not have life.” The Book of 1st John chapter 5 and verses 11 thru 12

John 3 and verse 16 is a synopsis of the entire mission of Jesus Christ.
Here added with harmonious verses so as to deliver you to the full import of the Salvation message. I pray you receive it with the open heart from which it was shared.
Linked to the comparative scriptures in the American Standard Version and the Mounce Interlinear Greek Version. One can click on the word in the passage in the Greek version so as to be taken to the corresponding Concordance that explains the meaning of that particular word.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20 For every one that [f]doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be [g]reproved. 21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, [h]that they have been wrought in God.

Melach already answered the question that you STILL don't seem to understand.

 

[Whispered]

You are saying that there is no need for the Lord Jesus Christ.

You thought that would be met with smiles and hugs?

I see the enemy has you wrapped around his talon today.
Now you are resorting to giving false witness, lying, about me and my posts.
I will continue to pray for you.

 

[Whispered]

Melach already answered the question that you STILL don't seem to understand.

How deeply tragic. I feel this has transcended the discussion in this thread and has moved to a personal attack mode on your part.
Because it is impossible for a reasonable person to make the statement there that you just did while quoting my post that proves your statement is of no merit. Because what you quoted of me proves I absolutely understand. And that my post in no way is in discord with Melach's observation.

Are you alright?

 

[Grandpa]

It appears it was given you have resorted to sarcasm and snide innuendo in order to arrive at this point. When in truth, nothing you have said here was ever omitted in this discussion. It was all right there in God's word that was shared in this thread.
For whatever reason, God only knows, you did not see that.

Snide innuendo? Are you serious? What did I say that was snide or innuendo?


Its kind of funny. You say "Here is a brick building".

Its obvious its a brick building. Its a statement of fact.

But then someone else says "that's not a brick building". "It has windows in it".

And you say "well brick buildings have windows in them, silly".

And then "Well you don't have to get mean with your sarcasm and snide innuendos"

What??? Really??? I haven't even started the sarcasm yet.

 

[Grandpa]

How deeply tragic. I feel this has transcended the discussion in this thread and has moved to a personal attack mode on your part.
Because it is impossible for a reasonable person to make the statement there that you just did while quoting my post that proves your statement is of no merit. Because what you quoted of me proves I absolutely understand. And that my post in no way is in discord with Melach's observation.

Are you alright?

Ok. I'll slow this WAY down for you.

People need to be saved from their sins. That's what they need to be saved from.


If the Atonement is for the whole world then ALL the worlds sins have been atoned for and they no longer need Salvation.

Their sins are gone. They are atoned. Because the Sacrifice of the Atonement has already occurred.

Do you see?


But if the Atonement is only for people who believe in Christ, then only believers are Saved. Which is ACTUALLY what the bible says.