Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

But thats the point

The law, demands everyone confirm and obey every word.

Thus, although your right, our condemnation is what was nailed (actually our guilt) it is the law the proved our guilt, and as such condemned us (the curse of the law)

(note, the quoting system in post
https://christianchat.com/threads/d...-to-keep-the-law-of-moses.185392/post-4025391
got messed up.
NayborBear's words ended up inside the quote box attributed to me.)

Thanks for sharing that detail!
The meat that you do eat, is it only from animals talked about as being clean in the law?
Or do you also eat unclean animals these days?

I see lots testimonies in the form of post from you, yes.

And now, just recently, I am seeing more details about how you are living, how what you say in your posts is playing out in your daily life.

Good for you! Please keep stepping into the light!

You still aren't getting it are you?
It's not about me!
It's about Jesus!
More specifically though?
He who sent Jesus!
And, inheriting of the Kingdom of God, and Kingdom of Light, which comes if/when/are one has been confessed before He who sent Jesus Christ.
Should all this be contained in your "view", or interpretation of who Jesus is, or what He was sent to do?
That's all on you man!
You a mocker, scoffer, or both?
Asking for a friend!

How you practice what you preach is very much about you.

You were doing so well talking about how you apply the law in your daily activities!
Here's another commandment, do you practice this? If so what actions do you take?
Deuteronomy 13: 6. If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife of your heart, or the friend who is as dear to you as your life, working on you secretly says to you, Let us go and give worship to other gods, strange to you and to your fathers; 7. Gods of the peoples round about you, near or far, from one end of the earth to the other; 8. Do not be guided by him or give attention to him; have no pity on him or mercy, and give him no cover; 9. But put him to death without question; let your hand be the first stretched out against him to put him to death, and then the hands of all the people.

I believe that would be a false dichotomy, or maybe it's a false trichotomy?

Not one jot or tittle will pass from the Law until ALL is fulfilled.

Law keepers don't keep the whole Law -- they keep only part of it -- and this is strong evidence that ALL has already been fulfilled and therefore we are no longer under the Law.[/QUOTE]

When I mentioned what Jesus said before the ascension I was just being honest to admit that there are some words that seem to be in favor of your belief.


I respect your sincere interpretation of Scriptures, but you don't respect mine -- you call it deceptive.

Scribes and Pharisees are no more in existence, so you can't follow their teachings.

In Acts 15 Peter is very clear about it. Barnabas at first was reluctant, but eventually he seemed to have agreed with the other apostles about the freedom from the law of Moses. So, all apostles who took part in the Council of Jerusalem clearly admitted that Christians don't have to keep the law of Moses. The author of Hebrews also believed Christians are free from the Law (7:18-19; 8:7-8; 8:13; 10:1).

Acts 15 New International Version (NIV)
The Council at Jerusalem

15 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

A few things here.

1. Jesus said "unless heaven and earth pass" This has not yet happened.

2. Jesus said "till all is fulfilled" This has not yet happened. The most prophesied event, Jesus 2nd coming has not yet happened.

Luke 24:44, "Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

All is not fulfilled, His 1st coming is dulfilled, His 2nd coming is not.

This perfectly ties in with "unless heaven and earth pass" another event that has not yet happened. Finally to use "ppl don;t keep the entire law, is not factual proof to throw it out... Because ppl sin then there must be no righteous standard? No sir, wrong.

Well to me this a one of the verses that really made me begin to seek Jesus own words rather than what I have been told about Jesus and His doctrine. Another one is this, the Spirit will remind us of His words while He was in the flesh, this is 100% against His words being done away in any way;

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

How can His words be discarded if He said the Holy Spirit being them to rememberance? IMO anyone led by the Spirit would seek His words because thats what the Spirit teaches.

I'm Did not mean to offend you, I stand by the doctrine that I stated,m but I didn't mean to be so hash, I am sorry and would like to re-state that; you said Jesus said to obey the Pharisees, but that is only part of what He said, and to remove the details is to misuse the verses. He said to obey them in their teaching of the law but that they don;t do the law and no to follow their examples but to use the law as a guide. (IMO to make sure it is the correct spirit leading us)

I disagree, modern Judaisim is 100% the exact same man made law that the pharisees taught. Any study of modern Judaisim will show that the "traditions" Jesus said "made the law of God of no effect" in Mat 15, 23 and Mark 7;

matt 15: 6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.

Are still not only in effect in modern Judaisim but the EXACT same practice is done. Exactly. It is the same man made law.

Yes Acts 15 is clear:

Acts 15:19-21, " 19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

This was a basic list, all found in the old testament law for "those of the Gentiles who turn to God" (new converts) if this were a finalized list then stealing is 100% ok... BUt no it's not, and new converts would learn this and other laws because "Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath"

Also one of the things in Acts 15 is "abstain from food sacrificed to idols" Paul later on in Romans and Corinthians says this is ok.

Bottom line, it's not about anyone but Jesus.

Jesus says His words will never pass.

Jesus says the Holy Spirit will bring to rememberance all that He said while in the flesh,

Jesus says His sheep hear His voice and follow.

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
There will always be A LAW that has dominion over us as long as we live

Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth but if the husband be dead she is loosed from the law of her husband
A married woman comes under the law of her husband, but when he dies she is not under "his" law anymore, but a different one.

Romans 7:3 So then if while her husband liveth she be married to another man she shall be called an adulteress but if her husband be dead she is free from that law so that she is no adulteress though she be married to another man.
If a person is under one law and not having been released from it, take on another they are unfaithful. But if free of one law, she is freed from the first, it available at that point to take on another without being unfaithful.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore my brethren ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ that ye should be married to another even to him who is raised from the dead that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
No one, once taking the Lord as their Saviour, will ever be justified by the law, as the belief in the risen Christ is where the justification before God will come from. And it is through Jesus and our belief and the spirit that dwells within us that we bring forth fruit to God.

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh the motions of sins which were by the law did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
BEFORE the Risen Christ, before the spirit dwelled within us, the law of the flesh brought us only death and that was the only law we followed. But we are no longer "only" flesh, but we also now have the spirit, and with the spirit and the law, we bring forth fruit unto life

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law that being dead wherein we were held that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
We are delivered from the law of the flesh by the Spirit, and having received the spirit, we are to server the law of God in the spirit, and not the law of the flesh.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin but by the law for I had not known lust except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
NO, THE LAW IS NOT SIN. Before the law, I didn't even know that "lust" was an evil. The law of God "shows" us what is right from what is wrong.

Romans 7:8 But sin taking occasion by the commandment wrought in me all manner of concupiscence For without the law sin was dead.
I realize now that I "thought" I was alive, doing whatever the flesh wanted, with no thought of sin, but when made aware of the law of God, the realization of just how sinful I was, was manifested within me

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once but when the commandment came sin revived and I died.
Oh how foolish the man is without God, but the laws of God, once they are accepted for the righteousness of God, then sin is acknowledged, and mortality without God becomes very clear

Romans 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Though the law will wake you up to your own sinfulness, the Law itself offers no remedy. That only comes by Christ

Romans 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Sin itself makes you think the "law" may not be really all that important, there really is no punishment for it and that will kill you

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy and the commandment holy and just and good
The divine law of God is holy, as are the holy commandments of God just and good, therefore let no one ever take any of them from you.

Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful
So it was not the divine law of God or the holy commandments of God THAT KILLED YOU but THE SIN WHICH THEY PROVED WAS IN YOU, and IT WAS THAT SIN THAT WAS THE DEATH OF YOU, and THEY also "illuminated" just how sinful you were

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual but I am carnal sold under sin
In the flesh, when NO SPIRIT resides, you do not "see" the spiritual laws because flesh alone doesn't get it.

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not for what I would that do I not but what I hate that do I.
When you come to knowledge of the Lord, accept him and the holy spirit comes to dwell, the knowledge of the divine law and the holy commandments of God, helps you to realize all the sinful acts that you must now start putting OUT of your life. A war has begun with the flesh, and victory started the moment the spirit came to dwell within you.

Romans 7:16 If then I do that which I would not I consent unto the law that it is good
The acknowledging that you are doing things you do not want to be doing, on proves the law is good.

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it but sin that dwelleth in me.
When you are in the fight, because you have become a spiritual being, it is that part of you that is flesh, that the sin is found.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing for to will is present with me but how to perform that which is good I find not.
We are all sinners. God knows this. What should we do about it?

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not but the evil which I would not, that I do.
I acknowledge the law, it tells me good from evil, the spirit within me convicts me

Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not it is no more I that do it but sin that dwelleth in me.
I know that is not who I really am, but I am in the flesh, I must acknowledge that

Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me
So I go to the law, find that that what I feel in my flesh is evil

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man
I rejoice for the law of God and the spirit within me, and am so very happy of the love I have gotten within

Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members
And I see that I am in the flesh, which has a law of its own, that fights with the spirit, so I keep myself aware this is truth and I act accordingly, not pretending I am no longer flesh, but I am not flesh being led by the spirit and the law

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
THE LORD

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God but with the flesh the law of sin.
AND THESE TWO I MUST NOT FORGET ARE PRESENT WITH ME ALWAYS AND MUST BE RECOGNIZED AND DEALT WITH AS SUCH

Good catch on this one. I brought up this point a few times, too.

The ink and letters on stone is what EVERYONE gets when they reject Gods Grace. Until that ink and letters on stone condemn the sinner so badly that they come to Christ and receive Rest.

Compare that with;
John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Work at it yourself = death

Hear God and be Gods Workmanship = Life

Matthew 12:49-50, “For whoever does the desire of My Father who is in the heavens is My brother and sister and mother.”

Matthew 24:45-51, " 45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 48 But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know 51 and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Man 375 pages! You have been blessed, I came here to set it straight and tell ya'll how it is.

We see from the New Testament the following:
We are to love God, and our neighbor, two commandments which summarize the entire law!
9 of the 10 commandments are repeated in the New Testament, the only exception being THE SABBATH.(Rom 13:9) (Sorry sabbathkeepers)
None of the ceremonial feast days, sabbaths, new moons or circumcision is applicable to gentiles who joined the Church (Col 2:12, Acts 15)

Paul listing the commandments (not sabbath, oops)

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And there you have it. SIMPLE AS. Love is the fulfilling of the law, the law of Christ, the law of faith, whatever you wish to call it.

This aint rocket science people, Paul makes it crystal clear in Romans 13:9 and its made clear elsewhere in the New Testament. What people like to call "the moral law" is forever and OF COURSE Christians need to follow it, to suggest otherwise is to just preach madness to the people!
On the flipside: The New Testament makes it CLEAR that we dont have to keep the feast days, sabbaths, new moons, circumcision, ITS JUST NOT OUR CULTURE, alright. I would have NO IDEA how to act or what to do on those jewish feast days. I'd look like a FOOL speaking hebrew with a horrible accent.

TL;DR Christians are free from the mosaic law with its ceremonies and holy days, animal sacrifices and circumcision, but Christians are to love their neighbor and God, which includes 9 out of the 10 commandments as Paul makes plain in Rom 13:9. THE END.

The King of kings says:

John 14: 21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”

"Until all is fulfilled" is hard to understand, that's why I follow Paul. He was our apostle and everything he wrote applies to us (the Gentiles). Paul tells us numerous times not to keep the Law of Moses and this is enough for me. Or should I disregard him?

I don't think it is a good idea to follow people who rejected the Messiah.

Sounds Pauline. Careful what you say

It's not necessary to mention adultery, fornication, backbiting, theft, etc because teachings regarding such sins are already part of the New Testament doctrine.

Acts 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee

Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people and from the Gentiles unto whom now I send thee

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Acts 26:21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.

Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day witnessing both to small and great saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Acts 26:24 And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself much learning doth make thee mad.

Acts 26:25 But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.

Acts 26:26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him for this thing was not done in a corner.

Acts 26:27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.

Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

And ....? What's your point?

I think it's very easy to understand.

Luke 24:44, "Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

Prophecies were made about the 1st and 2nd coming of Jesus.

Either they are all complete or they are not all complete.

Since He has not yet made His 2nd coming it's very very simple, they are all not yet complete.

See here we go again.

Jesus said to follow the teachings they taught about Moses but not all their other stuff.

You seem to rufuse to accept the entire passage and over simplify it into, He says follow the pharisees. That is not what He actaully said, but I see how if you make it that it's easier to toss out the baby with the bath water.