Water Baptism-What is in a Name?

Are you a Oneness Pentecostal? Do you believe that the person's sins are not forgiven until water baptism? Do you deny the Trinity?

The paper refers PRIMARILY to Oneness Pentecostalism, but it covers various claims related to their doctrines.

exactly

it was nice not having to reply to the assaults on scripture regarding baptism and a few other things but seems she is back at it

of course no one has to respond and it would all go away sooner

but everyone has their own choices to make

Yeah, I agree...I think the article I posted would address her belief system. It is amongst the best I've seen

By the way, I believe in the command to be water baptized. It is one of the ordinances of the church...however it is not salvific. One can see that by looking at Acts 10, where Cornelius and his family were speaking in tongues (which they consider to be a sign of salvation) prior to being baptized. Blows their theology out of the water.

Also Eph 1:13 mentions nothing about water baptism.

that could benefit others and always good to do that for those who get confused when they read stuff like 'if you are not baptized you are not saved or if you do not speak in tongues you are saved etc'

oh I'm water baptized myself but it does not save you as some claim...like the op for instance

only the blood of Christ washes away our sins. water is good for after getting your hands messed up pulling weeds

I have seen enough scripture that has 0 bearing on water baptism posted by this op and a one or two others here, that
the inclusion of any scripture would serve as proof to their beliefs

no accounting for it and especially while being scolded and told that the rest of us do not believe scripture

The OP is probably from the Oneness Pentecostal cult.

I don't believe that baptism should be taken lightly, but nor do I think it saves.

Well it doesn't help when you are doctrinally wrong from the very beginning.
Water baptism by full immersion confessing one's faith publicly before others is fundamental to obeying the gospel
of salvation.
The scriptures testify to this commandment and yet "Christians" wilfully are in denial of the word of God.

Go back and read my words. Perhaps there is a language barrier. In essence, I said that water baptism is a command but it does NOT convey grace.

Evangelicals believe that justification is by faith alone and not by faith and sacraments. That’s a Roman Catholic teaching. Cults including Oneness Pentecostals also tend to teach baptismal regeneration.

Partial quotes without a link to where the context can be checked are worthless, so here is this quote with greater context for all to read for themselves.

"
Other Arian sects, such as the Eunomians and Aetians, baptized "in the death of Christ". Converts from Sabellianism were ordered by the First Council of Constantinople (can. vii) to be rebaptized because the doctrine of Sabellius that there was but one person in the Trinity had infected their baptismal form. The two sects sprung from Paul of Samosata, who denied Christ's Divinity, likewise conferred invalid baptism. They were the Paulianists and Photinians. Pope Innocent I (Ad. Episc. Maced., vi) declares that these sectaries did not distinguish the Persons of the Trinity when baptizing. The Council of Nicæa (can. xix) ordered the rebaptism of Paulianists, and the Council of Aries (can. xvi and xvii) decreed the same for both Paulianists and Photinians.

There has been a theological controversy over the question as to whether baptism in the name of Christ only was ever held valid. Certain texts in the New Testament have given rise to this difficulty. Thus St. Paul (Acts, xix) commands some disciples at Ephesus to be baptized in Christ's name: "They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." In Acts 10, we read that St. Peter ordered others to be baptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ". Those who were converted by Philip. (Acts, viii) "were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ", and above all we have the explicit command of the Prince of the Apostles: "Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins (Acts, ii).

Owing to these texts some theologians have held that the Apostles baptized in the name of Christ only. St. Thomas, St. Bonaventure, and Albertus Magnus are invoked as authorities for this opinion, they declaring that the Apostles so acted by special dispensation. Other writers, as Peter Lombard and Hugh of St. Victor, hold also that such baptism would be valid, but say nothing of a dispensation for the Apostles. The most probable opinion, however, seems to be that the terms "in the name of Jesus", "in the name of Christ", either refer to baptism in the faith taught by Christ, or are employed to distinguish Christian baptism from that of John the Precursor. It seems altogether unlikely that immediately after Christ had solemnly promulgated the trinitarian formula of baptism, the Apostles themselves would have substituted another. In fact, the words of St. Paul (Acts, xix) imply quite plainly that they did not. For, when some Christians at Ephesus declared that they had never heard of the Holy Ghost, the Apostle asks: "In whom then were you baptized?" This text certainly seems to declare that St. Paul took it for granted that the Ephesians must have heard the name of the Holy Ghost when the sacramental formula of baptism was pronounced over them." https://www.ecatholic2000.com/cathopedia/vol2/voltwo269.shtml

That Catholic Encyclopedia can be found at these links:

https://www.ecatholic2000.com/cathopedia/indexb.shtml
https://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm

Hastings can be downloaded from here: https://archive.org/details/encyclopaediaofr01hastuoft/page/n10

Acts 19 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Paul in Ephesus
19 While Apollos was in the city of Corinth, Paul was visiting some places on his way to Ephesus. In Ephesus he found some other followers of the Lord. 2 He asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

These followers said to him, “We have never even heard of a Holy Spirit!”

3 Paul asked them, “So what kind of baptism did you have?”

They said, “It was the baptism that John taught.”

4 Paul said, “John told people to be baptized to show they wanted to change their lives. He told people to believe in the one who would come after him, and that one is Jesus.”

5 When these followers heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then Paul laid his hands on them, and the Holy Spirit came on them. They began speaking different languages and prophesying. 7 There were about twelve men in this group.

The choice is following your opinion or following the words of Jesus,

Jesus Talks to His Followers
16 The eleven followers went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus told them to go. 17 On the mountain the followers saw Jesus. They worshiped him. But some of the followers did not believe that it was really Jesus. 18 So he came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth is given to me. 19 So go and make followers of all people in the world. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach them to obey everything that I have told you to do. You can be sure that I will be with you always. I will continue with you until the end of time.”

Again the Didache, shows us that is what really happened,

1. Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," in running water;
2. But if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm.
3. But if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."
4. And before the baptism let the baptiser and him who is to be baptised fast, and any others who are able. And thou shalt bid him who is to be baptised to fast one or two days before.

As did many other Church Fathers,

“Do we not have one God and one Christ? Is there not one spirit of Grace poured out upon us? (Clement of Rome, A.D. 96)

“Who then would not be astonished to hear men called atheist who speak of God the Father, God the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and who declare both their power in union and their distinction in order? (Athenagoras, A.D. 175)

“We acknowledge a God, and a Son (His Logos), and a Holy Spirit. These are united in essence – the Father, the Son and the Spirit.” (Athenagoras, A.D. 175)

“The three days which were before the limunaries are types of the Triad God, His Word and His Wisdom.” (Theophilus, A.D. 180)

“I have also largely demonstrated that the Word, namely the Son, was always with the Father.” (Irenaeus, A.D. 180)

“The universal Father is one. The universal Word is one. And the Holy Spirit is one.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)

“Thank the One only Father and Son, Son and Father. The Son is the instructor and teacher, along with the Holy Spirit. They are all in One, in whom is all, for whom all is One, for whom is eternity.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)

“We pray at minimum not less then three times per day. For we are debtors to three: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Tertullian, A.D. 195)

“Who will not say that there is one God? Yet, he will not on that account deny the economy.” (Hippolytus, A.D. 205)

“If then the Word was with God and was also God, what follows? Would one say that I speak of two Gods? I will not indeed speak of two Gods, but of one. I speak of two persons, however, and of a third economy – the grace of the Holy Spirit…the economy of harmony is led back to one God. For God is one. The Father who commands, the Son who obeys and the Spirit who gives understanding.” (Hippolytus, A.D. 205 – Note, all citations via Bercot)

The Church Fathers

Triune Baptism

Didache,(.A.D. 70)

"And concerning baptism, thus baptize ye: Having first said all these things, BAPTIZE INTO THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, in living water. But if thou have not living water, baptize into other water; and if thou canst not in cold, in warm. But if thou have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into THE NAME OF FATHER AND SON AND HOLY SPIRIT. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but thou shalt order the baptized to fast one or two days before."(7in ANF,VII:379)

Justin Martyr (A.D. 155)

" I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, IN THE NAME OF GOD, THE FATHER AND LORD OF THE UNIVERSE, AND OF OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, THEY THEN RECEIVE THE WASHING WITH WATER. For Christ also said, 'Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: 'Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well; judge the fatherless, and plead for the widow: and come and let us reason together, saith the Lord. And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow. But if ye refuse and rebel, the sword shall devour you: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.' And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God; and if any one dare to say that there is a name, he raves with a hopeless madness. And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed."(First Apology,61(A.D. 155),in ANF,I:183

Tatian the Syrian (A.D. 170)

"Go now into all the world, and preach my gospel in all the creation; and teach all the peoples, and baptize them in the NAME OF THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT; and teach them to keep all whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you all the days, unto the end of the world. For whosoever believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but whosoever believeth not shall be rejected."(The Diatessaron,55,in ANF,X:128)

Irenaeus (A.D. 190)

"We have received baptism...for the remission of sins in the NAME OF GOD THE FATHER, AND IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD, WHO WAS INCARNATE AND DIED AND ROSE AGAIN, AND IN THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD."(Presentation of the Apostolic Preaching,41,in ECD,195)

Tertullian (A.D. 200)

"For the law of baptizing has been imposed, and the formula prescribed: 'Go,' He saith, 'teach the nations, baptizing them into the name of the FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.' The comparison with this law of that definition, 'Unless a man have been reborn of water and Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of the heavens,' has tied faith to the necessity of baptism."(On Baptism,13,in ANF,III:676)

Tertullian (A.D. 211)

"To deal with this matter briefly, I shall begin with baptism. When we are going to enter the water, but a little before, in the presence of the congregation and under the hand of the president, we solemnly profess that we disown the devil, and his pomp, and his angels. Hereupon WE ARE THRICE IMMERSED, making a somewhat ampler pledge than the Lord has appointed in the Gospel. "The Crown,3,in ANF,III:94)

Tertullian (A.D. 216)

"After His resurrection He promises in a pledge to His disciples that He will send them the promise of His Father; and lastly, He commands them to baptize into THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST, not into a unipersonal God. And indeed it is not once only, but three times, that we are immersed into the Three Persons, at each several mention of Their names."(Against Praxeas(Modalist/Oneness heretic),26,in ANF,III:623)

Hippolytus (A.D. 215)

"And when he who is to be baptised goes down to the water, let him who baptised lay hand on him saying thus: Dost thou believe in GOD ALMIGHTY? AND HE WHO IS BEING BAPTISED SHALL SAY: I BELIEVE. LET HIM FORTHWITH BAPTISE HIM ONCE ... DOST THOU BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS, THE SON OF GOD ... AND WHEN HE SAYS: I BELIEVE, LET HIM BAPTISE HIM THE SECOND TIME ... DOST THOU BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THE HOLY CHURCH ... AND HE WHO IS BEING BAPTISED SHALL SAY: I BELIEVE. AND SO LET HIM BAPTISE HIM THE THIRD TIME."(Apostolic Tradition,21,in AT,36-37)

Origen (A.D. 244)

"[W]hy, when the Lord Himself told His disciples that they should baptize all peoples in the name of the FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, does this Apostle employ the name of Christ alone in Baptism, saying, 'We who have been baptized in Christ;' for indeed, LEGITIMATE BAPTISM IS HAD ONLY IN THE NAME OF THE TRINITY."(Commentary on Romans,5:8,in JUR,I:209)

Xanthippe and Polyxena (A.D. 250)

"Then Probus arising from the ground fell again upon the couch, and arising early he came to Paul, and finding him baptising MANY IN THE NAME OF THE LIFE-GIVING TRINITY, he said, My lord Paul, if only I were worthy to receive baptism, behold the hour. Paul said to him, Son, behold the water is ready for the cleansing of those that come to Christ. Therefore immediately taking, off his garments, and Paul laying hold of him, he leapt into the water, saying, Jesus Christ, son of God, and everlasting God, let all my sins be taken away by this water. And Paul said, We baptise THEE IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND SON AND HOLY GHOST."(The Acts of Xanthippe and Polyxena,21 25,in ANF,X:211)

Eusebius of Caesarea (A.D. 323)

"We believe . . . each of these to be and to exist: the Father, truly Father, and the Son, truly Son, and the Holy Ghost, truly Holy Ghost, as also our Lord, sending forth His disciples for the preaching, said, "Go teach all nations, baptizing them in the NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST ." Concerning Whom we confidently affirm that so we hold, and so we think, and so we have held aforetime, and we maintain this faith unto the death, anathematizing every godless heresy" (Letter to the People of His Diocese 3 ).

I would not say an addition by the Roman Catholic boogeyman but one called a "law of the fathers" (Catholic or non Catholic) as oral tradition of men. That boogeyman called a daysman. A doctrine that attempts to make God into corrupted mankind as us.

Oneness Pentecostal position is based on what the eyes the temporal. Something they call "sign gifts" .Not a biblical teaching. We walk by faith.(the unseen eternal)

The H20 baptism is a ceremonial law.as a old testament foundation. It is used when a new priest had a personal desire to officiate the ceremonial laws. They were used as parables pointing ahead to the suffering of a bloody husband (the sign of circummsion) who came from the tribe of Judah as our new high priest after the order of Melchedik. Not from the family of Levi .John was the last of that order. The ceremonial law is still on the books. But getting wet does not confirm one has new birth .

Destroy the foundation of the doctrines of God then its open season on what some call "sign gifts'

Spiritual gift yes.. gifts as outward signs, no.

Water baptism is a command. If you read Matt 28:18-20, the time domain extends from that point until Jesus bodily returns.

I have no issue with water baptism...the idea that it conveys grace or must be done in the name of Jesus Only is the thing I have issues with. I realize that regeneration is the reality that the baptism points to, but baptism was a confession that one has been united with Christ, and gives testimony to the church community, as well as granting confidence to the new believer.

I am aware that there are hyperdispensationalists who claim water baptism is no longer applicable. I don't agree with them on that. I'm not a big fan of "dispensationalism" in the classical sense, although I would find myself in agreement with them on some things. The major thing I dislike about them is their insistence that there are two distinct peoples of God, whereas Scripture teaches Jew and Gentile are now one man (Eph 2, Gal 3).

I read the website for Revival Fellowship. It sounds like a Oneness Pentecostal cult.

You might listen to the podcasts that Cultish did on Oneness Pentecostalism.

read to here

https://www.podbean.com/ew/dir-amvyt-6895743
https://www.podbean.com/ew/dir-vc6g3-6895742
https://www.podbean.com/ew/dir-aqcmp-69c239c

Here are some links to messages on Oneness Pentecostalism. Particularly, they are relevant to United Pentecostal Churches International. Oneness Pentecostals broke off from UPCI mainly due to strict dress codes and other "holiness standards" like this. However, they all share the same "Jesus Only" baptism, etcetera.

I should have said, many Oneness Pentecostals broke off from UPC and formed their own groups that were less strict on dress codes and "holiness standards".

The podcasts above cover a lot of this information.

Robert Bowman addresses the issues with this in the PDF document I attached previously in this discussion in very good detail. If anyone is concerned, read it. It's excellent.