Water Baptism-What is in a Name?

[Waggles]

I read the website for Revival Fellowship. It sounds like a Oneness Pentecostal cult.

You know nothing.
The many official websites (most assemblies have their own website) do not teach Oneness nor the secretive cut off from the world
cult structure that sects ruled by one dominant person have.
You are writing complete

The Revival Fellowship is trinitarian and we baptize in accordance with Matthew 28:19
Also we are a Pentecostal Fellowship were people come and go as they please.
It is you U.S. Americans that have problems with your whacko christian sects mate, not Australia.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You know nothing.
The many official websites (most assemblies have their own website) do not teach Oneness nor the secretive cut off from the world
cult structure that sects ruled by one dominant person have.
You are writing complete

The Revival Fellowship is trinitarian and we baptize in accordance with Matthew 28:19
Also we are a Pentecostal Fellowship were people come and go as they please.
It is you U.S. Americans that have problems with your whacko christian sects mate, not Australia.

I'm glad you are not Oneness then

 

[garee]

I think I agree if I understand you correctly.

The sinful man is justified by faith, and not by works of any type. However, works flow from a genuine faith, because the saved person has been united with Christ. Due to his union with Christ, he produces good fruit to glorify God.

Great way of saying it.

 

[Heyjude]

Christians have all manner of magical incantation, from the sinners prayer to baptismal name dropping, the Lord's prayer, even the ceremony of the church service. It's legalism!
Salvation is believe in you heart and confess with your mouth not sinners prayer or baptism nor being inducted into the church via ceremony of any kind.
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
ROMANS 10:9‭-‬10 NASB.
In other words if I and some other poor soul are trudging across the desert and I witness and testify to this fellow and he believes and confesses as stated above, and we both die of exposure and dehydration and starvation having never crossed even a puddle of water to dunk him in. His belief and confession unto salvation is all then he is saved and we will see him in eternity after with my Lord. No magical formula or incantation or ceremony required.

 

[Heyjude]

Christians have all manner of magical incantation, from the sinners prayer to baptismal name dropping, the Lord's prayer, even the ceremony of the church service. It's legalism!
Salvation is believe in you heart and confess with your mouth not sinners prayer or baptism nor being inducted into the church via ceremony of any kind.
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
ROMANS 10:9‭-‬10 NASB.
In other words if I and some other poor soul are trudging across the desert and I witness and testify to this fellow and he believes and confesses as stated above, and we both die of exposure and dehydration and starvation having never crossed even a puddle of water to dunk him in. His belief and confession unto salvation is all then he is saved and we will see him in eternity after with my Lord. No magical formula or incantation or ceremony required.

 

[Heyjude]

I agree Baptism is not necessary if it is not available. When the Criminal on the Cross asked Jesus to "Remember me when you come into your Kingdom", Jesus didn't reply "well actually you cant come in as you have not been Baptised.".
Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise".

 

[Waggles]

Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise".

This was still OT and before Pentecost. Before there was a Christian doctrine of salvation for new believers.
After Jesus ascended into heaven to sit at the right hand of his Father the day of Pentecost came to begin the NT
and it starts with Acts 2:38

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Great way of saying it.

Right..my only real concern is the belief of baptismal regeneration....claiming that baptism is a necessary precursor to salvation.

This would be a false doctrine. Water baptism is a work that FOLLOWS salvation (and regeneration). It is a command and should be pursued by all who are able. If someone is on their deathbed, for example, they are not going to hop out of it and get baptized generally. There's nothing magic in the water anyways. Baptism is a visual presentation of God's grace. The believer is united with Christ by faith. Baptism shows the union with Christ that has already occurred (Rom 6:1-14).

To be honest, I doubt that many baptismal regeneration people even understand the symbolism that is employed.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Seems like the idea that is being portrayed is that baptism CAUSES the union, rather than DISPLAYING the union.

 

[Waggles]

Seems like the idea that is being portrayed is that baptism CAUSES the union, rather than DISPLAYING the union.

Water baptism is the acting on our repentance and the beginning of submission to God's will and commandments.
Union with God is through the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is then maintained through praying in tongues > that is
praying in the Holy Spirit.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I think I agree if I understand you correctly.

The sinful man is justified by faith, and not by works of any type. However, works flow from a genuine faith, because the saved person has been united with Christ. Due to his union with Christ, he produces good fruit to glorify God.

Water baptism is a visual display of the gospel, and particularly of his union with Christ. It does not precede salvation, but is a command which should be followed AFTER regeneration and salvation has occurred. See Rom 6:1-14.

Here's an additional explanation of union with Christ

https://www.monergism.com/union-christ-wayne-grudem

I would also recommend Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology for a very clear explanation of baptism as well.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Water baptism is the acting on our repentance and the beginning of submission to God's will and commandments.
Union with God is through the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is then maintained through praying in tongues > that is
praying in the Holy Spirit.

This is Oneness Pentecostal doctrine, whether you are Trinitarian or not. The claim is that if one doesn't pray in tongues they aren't saved.

I linked to three videos on Cultish regarding the United Pentecostal Church - International. The two ex-members (one is a pastor now) mentioned this claim. One of them discussed turmoil in his life caused by this false believe regarding speaking in tongues. Since he couldn't speak in tongues at different times, his theology basically caused him to fret about his relationship with God.

I don't know if he speaks in tongues now but he no longer believes their cultic garbage.

 

[Waggles]

I would also recommend Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology for a very clear explanation of baptism as well.

I recommend the indwelling (if you have) Spirit of truth and the holy scriptures.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Water baptism is the acting on our repentance and the beginning of submission to God's will and commandments.
Union with God is through the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is then maintained through praying in tongues > that is
praying in the Holy Spirit.

Union with Christ isn't maintained by praying in tongues. Would you show me biblically where you are getting that from?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I recommend the indwelling (if you have) Spirit of truth and the holy scriptures.

His explanation has copious references to Scripture, unlike yours.

 

[Waggles]

caused by this false believe regarding speaking in tongues. Since he couldn't speak in tongues at different times, his theology basically caused him to fret about his relationship with God.

Well there you go!
You keep posting your opinions correcting everybody as to their wrong doctrines and yet you post deceitful heresies against
the gospel and against the Holy Spirit.
Speaking in tongues is not a false belief it is the declare Bible evidence of baptism of the Holy Spirit.
And yes he ought to fret about his relationship with God.

 

[Waggles]

Union with Christ isn't maintained by praying in tongues. Would you show me biblically where you are getting that from?

That why praying in tongues is also described as praying in the Spirit ...
18 They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.”
19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,
21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
Jude 1:

 

[Waggles]

His explanation has copious references to Scripture, unlike yours.

So what.
If he is full of unbelief then his "explanations" of scripture ain't worth much.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I recommend the indwelling (if you have) Spirit of truth and the holy scriptures.

I read your profile.

Setting aside my position on speaking in tongues, I would like to submit that your conversion experience has caused you to give too much credibility to individuals with bad teachings.

I was regenerated while reading the cultic teachings of anti-Trinitarian Sabbathkeepers who thought they were the "true Church". It took me ten years to realize that they were false teachers.

I'm not sure why God chooses to save some people while still involved in cultic groups, but he does for some reason. Since he is Sovereign, I know it was just a random experience.

Regarding your Mark 16 reference, it's well-known that this section of Scripture is questionable. I have no doubt that it was written as a marginal note in someone's manuscript, and was carried forward.

Here's a longer explanation:

https://www.gotquestions.org/Mark-16-9-20.html

I mention this because baptismal regenerationists tend to use Mark 16:9-20 to bolster their doctrine. The verse that they use doesn't prove their doctrine anyways, but if the entire section is bogus then it doesn't matter.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

That why praying in tongues is also described as praying in the Spirit ...
18 They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.”
19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,
21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
Jude 1:

There's nothing mentioned here regarding praying in tongues.