Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

Incorrect. This only works if you were misquoted saying something you didn't say or I'm making an argument you didn't make, but this was a conversation between me and SG.

...we just went over strawman in the other thread, I thought we were in agreement as to what it is...

The doctrine is "grace alone, do no working at the law". Grandpa is clear on his stance, EG echoes it, and you thumbs upped a bunch of posts that absolutely no work is to be attempted; none in relation to the law, because any attempt whatsoever is working from ones OWN strength and understanding no matter what a person claims to have from Christ (i.e. strength, etc), thus all work is legalistic and judaistic; that one is to rest in the completed work of Christ".

^grace only, do nothing.

If you call what I say a strawman then what is the true doctrine?

My intent was to quote Christ's parable and show parallels to the gift of grace, and what christ is going to say and do when he returns, and to testify to my life.

GB then attempted to attribute words I never posted, and now you seem to want me to imply them or step into the strawman already set ablaze. No thanks.

Instead, you can ask me what I meant about anything I said or you can refer me to a post where I actually said what was claimed I said. I'll be happy to respond to it.

I wouldn't say that God broke His Covenant with the Hebrews.

The Hebrews broke their covenant with God.

So God made a New Covenant. And offered it to the Hebrews First.

But they rejected it. So now the Gentiles, including all the nations of the earth, benefit by being participants in this New Covenant which is NOT specific to Jews ONLY. It has been extended to everyone.

Jews are allowed in this New Covenant as well. They are not excluded.


I read your link that you posted and I found it to be mostly error. Just like the error people make when they say Constatine is the one who got rid of the saturday sabbath. I'm not sure if you know this but not everything on the internet is true....

Ok. I didn't realize that was what I was doing.

I thought you believed, basically, what GB9 had said about the 10 c's not being part of the Mosaic Covenant, even though you may have not said it word for word.

My apologies if you do not believe that.

This is a thread about law.

300 pages of conversation has been about law, whether to work it or not.

All the labels levied against members relate to law.

Has that not been the context since the beginning, Post: the law?

What is grace always pit against in these threads?

Hence "grace only, do nothing (......in the law)" doctrine.

Not sure if this really answers any of the questions I asked.

But its good scripture.

Lol I think it was one of my last posts in reply to you actually where I literally detailed EVERYTHING was in the sinai covenant before it was sealed.

Living for God
Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you. But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God’s grace in its various forms. If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
1 Peter 4:1-11

What you say makes sense, but I still don't have a sure opinion about the exact meaning of this portion of Scripture. But one thing is absolutely clear to me: Since the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15)the Law of Moses is no longer in force.

The Lord Jesus said: Not one jot or tittle will pass from the Law until all is fulfilled. Today not even the orthodox Jews keep the Law of Moses a hundred percent and that means they themselves have already removed not only jots and tittles, but also many words, phrases and whole sentences from the Torah. Doesn't that mean ALL has already been fulfilled?

If Christians were supposed to keep the Law of Moses the letters of Paul would be completely different. The bulk of his letters would be dedicated to teaching Gentiles how to keep the Law. But, on the contrary, Paul tells us we are not under the Law.

I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— Romans 15:18

What of Jesus saying these things? Can we disagree or ignore them so as to insist the law of God is no longer in effect?

this part tho -- i know, right? the church was originally like 99% percent ethnic Jews, so...

Click to expand...

So.... In light of that fact, why then is there animus among some in the church toward the Jews? Strange indeed.

If you would, point for point , please point out that which you judge to be mostly error in the link.

Well, yeah.

I thought you basically said the Lord fulfilled Levitical rites but not the 10 commandments.

I wanted to answer this part of your remarks separate from that of the details I requested to rebut the link I shared, as you said there were multiple errors therein.
As pertains to Constantine and his council changing the day of worship to Sunday:
March 7th, 321 AD Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3
On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time

As pertains to Easter and Constantine.
On the Keeping of Easter. From the Letter of the Emperor to all those not present at the Council. (Found in Eusebius, Vita Const., Lib. iii., 18–20.) When the question relative to the sacred festival of Easter arose, it was universally thought that it would be convenient that all should keep the feast on one day; for what could be more beautiful and more desirable, than to see this festival, through which we receive the hope of immortality, celebrated by all with one accord, and in the same manner? It was declared to be particularly unworthy for this, the holiest of all festivals, to follow the custom [the calculation] of the Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of crimes, and whose minds were blinded. In rejecting their custom,113 we may transmit to our descendants the legitimate mode of celebrating Easter, which we have observed from the time of the Saviour’s Passion to the present day [according 113 We must read !"#$%, not &"'#$%, as the Mayence impression of the edition of Valerius has it. 114 NPNF (V2-14) Philip Schaff to the day of the week]. We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews, for the Saviour has shown us another way; our worship follows a more legitimate and more convenient course (the order of the days of the week); and consequently, in unanimously adopting this mode, we desire, dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews, for it is truly shameful for us to hear them boast that without their direction we could not keep this feast.

The Old Testament pointed the Jews to Jesus. The New Testament points the Gentiles to Jesus. Jesus points all towards kingdom of God.


Isaiah 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while He is near

Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts and let him return unto the LORD and he will have mercy upon him and to our God for he will abundantly pardon.
(What happens to the wicked who do not forsake their way and unrighteous man his thoughts, and do not return unto the Lord? No mercy and no pardon)

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
(because man doesn't think like God)

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
(study, to show yourself approved, don't judge)

Isaiah 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it

(What prospers? the Word that goes forth)



Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

Romans 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth and in thy heart that is the word of faith, which we preach

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.



Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith Lord, who hath believed our report?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

He claimed and seemed to be Spirit led, but eventually it became obvious that he was not. I came across him a year or so after he started working for false prophet Edir Macedo and he tried to excuse himself saying: "I'm working for Universal Church of God's Kingdom, but I don't agree with anything they do". I just said "Oh, yeah" (not sarcastically). But I told myself: This is like driving criminals to the scene of a robbery and then say you have nothing to do with their evil deeds.

We must love the Lord our God with all our hearts and with all our souls and with all our strength and with all our minds'; and our neighbors as ourselves.'"

The servant who knows the master's will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows, but the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

I'm doing my best to serve God and if I'm wrong He knows my heart and will forgive me.