Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

It's not that God won't, or can't complete the work He started in you!
It's that y'all don't "see", or can't "see", "WORK?" Is a "two-way" street!
YOU? HAVE to help in this!
Overcoming? It's NOT a "gift!"
It's REQUIRES "WORK!"
I am reminded so many times when reading the posts from y'all OSAS people fo what God sez in Ezekiel 13!

Greetings PH,

We have had discussions explainaing the seeming contradiction between what you cited and what I cited. Do you remember the discussion?

Remember this scenario is the same today where God made available all that was/is necessary to fulfill His commandments, but both Israel and Many today, have failed to "enter in" by "standing afar off".

Don't you think it would be better to provide the scriptural answer for the seeming contradiction you posted? Leaving it may cause young believers to lose faith in the Word of God, and I know you don't want that.

The question is not "Are the 10 commandments good".

The 10 commandments are good, but YOU are not.

The 10 commandments will ALWAYS show your sin. And in so doing show your death and condemnation.


So there is a solution for this that GOD has made for us. Instead of working at the 10 commandments and pretending to each other that this work makes you righteous before God, God has made a way for REAL Righteousness through Him.

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


I suppose for people who are adamant that it is their own work and understanding at the 10 commandments that makes them righteous they CAN'T see this simplicity that is in scripture.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


Does any of this make void the intent of the 10 commandments? No.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

It is our faith in Christ that establishes the intent of the 10 commandments, NOT our work and understanding of them.

i don't know why you think it is a contradiction.

God knew they would not keep the law. this doesn't contradict the fact that it was within their power to. Genesis 1 through Exodus 19 had already foreshadowed that fact over and over and over by the time we get to Exodus 20.

and it is explained, readily:

did you not read Romans yet?
i hoped that everyone involved in this thread should have read it several times before they post any more.

So there is a solution for this that GOD has made for us. Instead of working at the 10 commandments and pretending to each other that this work makes you righteous before God, God has made a way for REAL Righteousness through Him.

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

But they "stood afar off" Did not receive the Holy Spirit of God. Ex Ch 20

Same as today, men rebel, predictably, against the commandments of God if they have not received the Holy Spirit and they embrace and treasure, predictably, the commandments of God when they have received the Holy Spirit!

All any man has to do is listen to a mans position on "obedience" to Gods Laws to determine his relationship with the Holy Spirit, if you accept the Holy Scriptures declarations on the matter.

Exodus 16: testing them with manna and the first sabbath, 'to see if they will keep my commandments' -- they fail. it is proven, a testimony against them before the giving of the law.

You are showing a pattern.

please stop repeating the same fallacious strawman, and read please Romans. please study Romans. please pray to God through your Mediator the man Jesus Christ for wisdom regarding Romans. please understand Romans.
we are not saying 'let us do evil so that good may result' -- we are saying, praise God, He is Salvation!

I wish you could see it. When you read it with a conclusion looking for what supports your conclusion you leave out the best part! The Law is Just and Good to the Spiritual man, but the law is death and condemning to the carnal man. When we are "In Christ Jesus" have the Holy Spirit we "delight in Gods Law" just as you cited.

The key is to be "in Christ" where the Old man is superseded by the inner man so that our minds set on what the Spirit desires.

I pray you will see the transition that you will need to make from death to life.

I know you did not say this to myself, but I am going to say something here, hope posthuman does not mind.

and, I say this to all you judeaizers-

we DO see what you are saying. myself, eternally grateful, grandpa, post, we have been over and over this theology you guys are pushing, have covered all your talking points, we have been through the conversations with many who have came and gone over the years who push some version of Hebrew roots, ( none of you will admit it, but that is all you push, just different versions of the same thing, Hebrew roots.)

so, we do see what you are saying, we see it is wrong, we see all the contradictions in it, all the Scripture you twist, turn, or just outright deny and/or ignore.

so, we do see " It" we see " it" for what it is. a theology built with the Bible as a base, but a theology that denies Biblical truth.

Thank you I want to ask you about this part, though:

When Jesus did not say the law was abolished but that he had fulfilled it,
it meant he fulfilled the laws of Moses so as to make them null and void.
Jesus ministry went on to reiterate, re-state, the ten laws of our Father
as still in effect when he was asked what laws matter still.

Do we argue now our Savior was wrong? And those against that teaching are right?

What I wonder is, where did Jesus command us to keep the Sabbath?

Marcelo said: My friend was a by-the-book-Christian. He studied the Bible just like lawyers study a civil code, and this is putting the cart ahead of the ox. Christians must be primarily guided by the Holy Spirit and secondly by Scripture.

Were you able to share your insights with him? I have known a few people to be led by guilt or desire for the praise of men, but if not called by the lead of the Holy Spirit that is one storm that will be hard to weather.

I would refer you to the Book of Mark chapter 2. All of it so as to gain the full measure of the message. The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. Our precious Savior is Lord of the Sabbath. Think on that phrase; "LORD of the Sabbath". He established His day of rest in the beginning after his labors in creation. Then He told us to remember that and keep that day of rest as holy for ourselves and in rest with our great God.
The Lord of the Sabbath
(1 Samuel 21:1-9; Matthew 12:1-8; Luke 6:1-5)

23And it came to pass, He is passing through the grainfields on the Sabbaths, and His disciples began to make their way, plucking the heads of grain. 24And the Pharisees were saying to Him, “Behold, why do they that which is unlawful on the Sabbaths?”

25And He said to them, “Did you never read what David did when he had need, and he and those with him hungered— 26how he entered into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the loaves of the presentation, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests—and he even gave to those being with him?”

27And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made on account of the man, and not the man on account of the Sabbath. 28So then, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Jesus death on the cross insured those edits of Moses law were nailed to the cross. Therefore, as Jesus demonstrated prior to the cross, working on the Sabbath was not worthy of death. Jesus worked on the Sabbath healing people, walking about delivering his ministry. And after he returned to the right hand of the Father, the apostles also kept the Sabbath and Christ exampled and intended. Were Jesus to have done away with the Sabbath would his students who followed him, supped with him, slept with him in their midst, have honored it? Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

Now, I would ask you, where did Jesus tell us the Sabbath no longer was to be kept?
And how would it be wrong to remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy today and especially in these dark times?

I appreciate your candor and civil tone. We too hear what you are saying. I was raised in churches that did not push the Law, in fact they discouraged any consideration of it. But after receiving the anointing of the Holy Spirit I was driven into the Scriptures OT & NT and I literally was drinking in all of it! I literally fell in love with the order and Spirit of the OT Laws! Overjoyed with the sensibility and loveliness of it all. So time kept passing and I kept diggin into the scriptures and slowly the NT and the OT began to merge together. They complimented one another perfectly. As I heard more on Grace I recognized the Grace of God, always had, but when Grace doctrine tried to surpass and replace the beauty of His commands, I considered it from every angle I could being careful not to miss anything, but there was no way to bring that doctrine into full agreement with the Holy Spirit that led and Leads my studies. I have been through the considerations of the conflicts in this matter more times that I care to count, but the Spirit of Truth returns me to the scripture where all thing must meet their approval. The all Grace doctrine does not, the Justification through Grace and Sanctification through The Holy Spirit does. I am always left with the only conclusion I can arrive at and that is "they cannot be hearing the Holy Spirit as He clarifies the Scriptures"

There are so many errors out there today that can shipwreck a mans "Faith" which again I recognize as the bringing to gother of "belief" and "obedience" to produce "actionable works". The actionable works are actual "substance" real, tangiable, seeable manifestations as evidence of a mans beliefs and Obedience. This is the essence of the Law, beyond words and thoughts faith is true life "doing it!" Just as James said;


Jas 1:27 NIV Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Real works.

I hope you at least have some suspicions that a theological position that is contrary to the will of God that is good and Just and Holy is eerily similar to what Nacash promoted to beguile Eve. Eerily similar.

Can the adversary bring persistent peace and joy and fellowship with Yahshua and the Heavenly Father? No, But this is what I have experienced for years.

But i will add this, it does not manifest itself in worldly goods, and ease and worldly joys, just the opposite, I am being crowded to Christ which has nothing to do with the things of this world except in the divesting of and from them. This is a deal breaker for most as they use "increased with goods" and "ease" to measure success in their religion.

Sincerely

SG

see,

why don't they read Romans? it's all right there. the answer to all these circular arguments for hundreds of pages.

& SG doesn't even reply with scripture, but the same false strawman, claiming you're saying 'disobey the decalogue!' tho you are saying no such thing.

Excellent. I was going to ask GB who he thought the judaizers were that he was talking to lol.

Your post has been my experience too SG. The only way I could continue to accept the "grace only, do nothing" doctrine was by NOT studying the scriptures. Every time I did it conflicted with the "do nothing" doctrine at every turn more and more. I especially had to stop reading Christ's words if I was supposed to "do nothing".

For instance, recall the parable of the talents. First, Christ parables usually begin with "the kingdom of heaven is like...", so right there it tells me this is upon His return (i.e. second coming).

As I remember the parable, the king GIFTED three people with treasure.

...so they initially did NOTHING to earn their gift. This is critical.

Then, after receipt of the gift, two of the three servants WORKED their gift; USED the gift, took action and made it grow.

...but one servant, afraid to LOSE the gift they were given, DID NOTHING with it. He literally buried it.

When the king returned he rewarded the two servants who worked their gift, but took away the gift from the one who did nothing with it, and did so in anger.

The gift was exactly the same quantity as when the king gave it before returning. No growth.

---

Grace is called a gift from the living God. It's quite possibly the most valuable gift we can receive prior to our immortal bodies. More valuable than gold. And it was given to us while the king is away.

We did NOTHING to earn this gift, and could do nothing.

...And all throughout the "NT" letters believers are encouraged to GROW their grace and knowledge of Christ.

"May you grow in grace."

"Grow in grace."

Very very similar to the talent of gold represented in the parable.

So I had a doctrine telling me to do nothing with this gift for fear of losing it, while Christ and the apostles teach believers to put forth effort and grow this gift.


In the end I had to forsake the "do nothing" doctrine and then commit to understanding how to grow the gift.

I don't want to be known as a wicked, lazy servant.