Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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Greetings W!,
As usual simple direct guidance from the scriptures. Wherever "Love" is used, I like to substitute Yahshua's definition;
Joh 14:21 KJV He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
So the verse you quoted above could read:
1Co 8:1-3 NIV Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but Knowing and Keeping Gods Commands builds up. (2) The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. (3) But the man who Knows and Keeps Gods commands is known by God.
Flows very well! Even the last three words "is known by God" matches the sentiment of John 14:21!
"Knowing" Gods Commandments without "keeping" them is "pride/puffing up" while "knowing and Keeping" or obedience is a sign of "humility"
Sometimes, I find a link between pride and resistance to authority, maybe every time! And definitely a link between Obedience and Humility! Yahshua demonstrated Humility and Obedience perfectly.
We should all know this link and reflect on whether our doctrines match this dual relationship of Humility and obedience.
SG Know and Keep!
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And the Lord said to Moses:
“You are going to rest with your ancestors, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake Me and break the covenant I made with them. And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide My face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and calamities will come on them, and in that day they will ask, ‘Have not these disasters come on us because our God is not with us?’ And I will certainly hide My face in that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods.
“You are going to rest with your ancestors, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake Me and break the covenant I made with them. And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide My face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and calamities will come on them, and in that day they will ask, ‘Have not these disasters come on us because our God is not with us?’ And I will certainly hide My face in that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods.
Now write down this song and teach it to the Israelites and have them sing it, so that it may be a witness for Me against them."
(Deuteronomy 31:16-19)
(Deuteronomy 31:16-19)
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Well? Another reason, is they have been seduced into "a blind love", by the "adversary!" So, in this "blindness?"
They "see" themselves as "saved eternally!" As "reigning" with Christ for those thousand years!
This is they "why" I have said so often, they "have clocks!" "Yet, still can't tell what time it is!"
They have been "seduced/oppressed" into thinking, that there are no "days of Noah", as Christ pointed out to His Disciples, in regards to His returning! That these "days of Noah", are for some future time!
But, what is Paul speaking of here:
Ephesians 6
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
As can be seen, even in Paul's teaching? This is NOT "flesh warfare!" It's SPIRITUAL!
Looky HERE to what John states!
1 John 4
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and EVEN NOW ALREADY is it in the world.
What these verses should be telling one? We have NEVER NOT been in "the DAYS of Noah!" NEVER!!
Jesus knew/knows this! John knew/knows this!
The elect, knew/knows this!
OSAS? They don't know this!
And, it is for this reason they mock and scoff!
Because "their daddy", doesn't want these "dots" to EVER be connected!
This is "why" they see the words we post, and try to teach, as "works FOR salvation!" Judizers! Legalists! Hebrew Roots!
Because they "see" in their seduction, these as "Works OF the Flesh!" But, they're NOT!
These are "Spiritual EFFORTS & Warfare" coming THROUGH "these flesh bodies!"
Matthew 24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE(?), they shall deceive the very elect.
What we are seeing time and time again, and what "the elect" are proving time and again, throughout this thread, as well as other threads?
Is the futility, although, the "elect" are greatly outnumbered, the inability of "being, and becoming deceived!"
Swayed? To a "certain point?" Yes! Outnumbered? Yes! Oppressed? Yes! Persecuted? Yes! "Leveraged?" To a "certain point?" Yes!
Deceived? Not gonna happen!
Our Father WON'T ALLOW it to happen!
They "see" themselves as "saved eternally!" As "reigning" with Christ for those thousand years!
This is they "why" I have said so often, they "have clocks!" "Yet, still can't tell what time it is!"
They have been "seduced/oppressed" into thinking, that there are no "days of Noah", as Christ pointed out to His Disciples, in regards to His returning! That these "days of Noah", are for some future time!
But, what is Paul speaking of here:
Ephesians 6
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
As can be seen, even in Paul's teaching? This is NOT "flesh warfare!" It's SPIRITUAL!
Looky HERE to what John states!
1 John 4
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and EVEN NOW ALREADY is it in the world.
What these verses should be telling one? We have NEVER NOT been in "the DAYS of Noah!" NEVER!!
Jesus knew/knows this! John knew/knows this!
The elect, knew/knows this!
OSAS? They don't know this!
And, it is for this reason they mock and scoff!
Because "their daddy", doesn't want these "dots" to EVER be connected!
This is "why" they see the words we post, and try to teach, as "works FOR salvation!" Judizers! Legalists! Hebrew Roots!
Because they "see" in their seduction, these as "Works OF the Flesh!" But, they're NOT!
These are "Spiritual EFFORTS & Warfare" coming THROUGH "these flesh bodies!"
Matthew 24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE(?), they shall deceive the very elect.
What we are seeing time and time again, and what "the elect" are proving time and again, throughout this thread, as well as other threads?
Is the futility, although, the "elect" are greatly outnumbered, the inability of "being, and becoming deceived!"
Swayed? To a "certain point?" Yes! Outnumbered? Yes! Oppressed? Yes! Persecuted? Yes! "Leveraged?" To a "certain point?" Yes!
Deceived? Not gonna happen!
Our Father WON'T ALLOW it to happen!
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I like this definition of Love here
Luke 10: 29. But he, desiring to justify himself, asked Jesus, "Who is my neighbor?" 30. Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
36. Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?" 37. He said, "He who showed mercy on him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."
Luke 10: 29. But he, desiring to justify himself, asked Jesus, "Who is my neighbor?" 30. Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
36. Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?" 37. He said, "He who showed mercy on him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."
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Laughable! So very laughable!
What's happening, is these names are just being "reflected back" to you!
And you, and others stand back in mocking self righteous abject horror.
Claiming: "Who?" "ME?" (whilst they wink at each other)
When it's all here in black and white, to be seen? Or, whatever "color" font/s one chooses to use?
What's happening, is these names are just being "reflected back" to you!
And you, and others stand back in mocking self righteous abject horror.
Claiming: "Who?" "ME?" (whilst they wink at each other)
When it's all here in black and white, to be seen? Or, whatever "color" font/s one chooses to use?
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I thought of this last evening and wanted to share here.
Why would we set to arguing about God's law of love? Why would any of us be adamantly opposed to someone else honoring the Sabbath day when they feel led to? It's their faith and their relationship with the Father. A personal individual connection to the Lord.
Why would anyone argue that basic human decency as outlined and as a matter of having a foundation in love for our self and love for our neighbor as we love our self, be at issue for anyone who is in Christ? When that individual believes the ten commands of God are eternal. Because they are not only grounded in Love for God, ourselves, and our neighbor whom the edicts insure reflect love for that neighbor as we love ourselves who would not trespass against them. These being the two great commands Jesus said the law and the prophets hang upon.
Jesus , when asked what parts of the law apply, didn't say , they don't. Because I am arrived! Jesus reiterated the law in his ministry, the ten commands, and in answering that question informed those attending that love of God and self are what those laws reflect. Love of God. Love of our self and for our neighbor whom we are to love and respect as we love and respect our self.
Why then would there ever be a conflict among the people of God's holy church in these matters? How could we ever dare say the laws of, thou shalt and shalt not, don't apply now?
When those ten commands are reflective of not just love of God, but basic human decency.
And we would dare say, no, that isn't applicable anymore because Jesus delivered the new covenant that exists without that.
I've come to believe the strongest opponents to those ten laws of decency and respect for God are not in the church of our Lord. They're in the congregation of the anti-christ. They know they'll not persuade those anointed of Christ to turn from God but they'll escalate a pointless discussion to that end just to interject tare after tare after tare, so as to gain attention from those who are in Christ. As we erroneously imagine we'll ever be able to set them on the straight and narrow.
This discussion if you read back just 10 pages is going nowhere. It is circling and circling and circling in the same downward direction and repeating the same point and counterpoint only in different phrases. All meaning to present the same message.
God's moral guidance doesn't apply - That's the anti-christ path
You're wrong! - That's the righteous path.
When Jesus did not say the law was abolished but that he had fulfilled it, it meant he fulfilled the laws of Moses so as to make them null and void. Jesus ministry went on to reiterate, re-state, the ten laws of our Father as still in effect when he was asked what laws matter still.
Do we argue now our Savior was wrong? And those against that teaching are right?
Maybe those in the faith and eternal irrevocable embrace of our precious Father might consider that rather than having a discussion here we're actually being approached by the messages and messengers of the enemy of our Father.
2 Corinthians 11:12-15
And I will continue doing what I am doing now, because I want to stop those people from having a reason to brag. They would like to say that the work they brag about is the same as ours. Such men are not true apostles but are workers who lie. They change themselves to look like apostles of Christ. This does not surprise us. Even Satan changes himself to look like an angel of light. So it does not surprise us if Satan’s servants also make themselves look like servants who work for what is right. But in the end they will be punished for what they do.
That's all I wanted to say.
Why would we set to arguing about God's law of love? Why would any of us be adamantly opposed to someone else honoring the Sabbath day when they feel led to? It's their faith and their relationship with the Father. A personal individual connection to the Lord.
Why would anyone argue that basic human decency as outlined and as a matter of having a foundation in love for our self and love for our neighbor as we love our self, be at issue for anyone who is in Christ? When that individual believes the ten commands of God are eternal. Because they are not only grounded in Love for God, ourselves, and our neighbor whom the edicts insure reflect love for that neighbor as we love ourselves who would not trespass against them. These being the two great commands Jesus said the law and the prophets hang upon.
Jesus , when asked what parts of the law apply, didn't say , they don't. Because I am arrived! Jesus reiterated the law in his ministry, the ten commands, and in answering that question informed those attending that love of God and self are what those laws reflect. Love of God. Love of our self and for our neighbor whom we are to love and respect as we love and respect our self.
Why then would there ever be a conflict among the people of God's holy church in these matters? How could we ever dare say the laws of, thou shalt and shalt not, don't apply now?
When those ten commands are reflective of not just love of God, but basic human decency.
And we would dare say, no, that isn't applicable anymore because Jesus delivered the new covenant that exists without that.
I've come to believe the strongest opponents to those ten laws of decency and respect for God are not in the church of our Lord. They're in the congregation of the anti-christ. They know they'll not persuade those anointed of Christ to turn from God but they'll escalate a pointless discussion to that end just to interject tare after tare after tare, so as to gain attention from those who are in Christ. As we erroneously imagine we'll ever be able to set them on the straight and narrow.
This discussion if you read back just 10 pages is going nowhere. It is circling and circling and circling in the same downward direction and repeating the same point and counterpoint only in different phrases. All meaning to present the same message.
God's moral guidance doesn't apply - That's the anti-christ path
You're wrong! - That's the righteous path.
When Jesus did not say the law was abolished but that he had fulfilled it, it meant he fulfilled the laws of Moses so as to make them null and void. Jesus ministry went on to reiterate, re-state, the ten laws of our Father as still in effect when he was asked what laws matter still.
Do we argue now our Savior was wrong? And those against that teaching are right?
Maybe those in the faith and eternal irrevocable embrace of our precious Father might consider that rather than having a discussion here we're actually being approached by the messages and messengers of the enemy of our Father.
2 Corinthians 11:12-15
And I will continue doing what I am doing now, because I want to stop those people from having a reason to brag. They would like to say that the work they brag about is the same as ours. Such men are not true apostles but are workers who lie. They change themselves to look like apostles of Christ. This does not surprise us. Even Satan changes himself to look like an angel of light. So it does not surprise us if Satan’s servants also make themselves look like servants who work for what is right. But in the end they will be punished for what they do.
That's all I wanted to say.
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It's not that God won't, or can't complete the work He started in you!
It's that y'all don't "see", or can't "see", "WORK?" Is a "two-way" street!
YOU? HAVE to help in this!
Overcoming? It's NOT a "gift!"
It's REQUIRES "WORK!"
I am reminded so many times when reading the posts from y'all OSAS people fo what God sez in Ezekiel 13!
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
8 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord God.
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter: (cookie cutter/hot house lilly/stony grounded "Christians!")
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Can't y'all SEE the "seduction" y'all are "peddling?"
It's that y'all don't "see", or can't "see", "WORK?" Is a "two-way" street!
YOU? HAVE to help in this!
Overcoming? It's NOT a "gift!"
It's REQUIRES "WORK!"
I am reminded so many times when reading the posts from y'all OSAS people fo what God sez in Ezekiel 13!
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
8 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord God.
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter: (cookie cutter/hot house lilly/stony grounded "Christians!")
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Can't y'all SEE the "seduction" y'all are "peddling?"
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Whaaaaa?
You don't know?
How many times and how many posts is it going to take for you to understand?
Works for salvation!
Legalism!
Hebrew Roots!
EVERYTHING in love!
To the point of total BLINDNESS!
Love, isn't just "A" fruit of the Spirit!
It's the ONLY fruit of the Spirit! They haven't pounded THIS into your coconut yet? Don't "believe" 'em? Just ASK 'em!
EVERY "other" fruit?
Tossed under the bus!
You don't know?
How many times and how many posts is it going to take for you to understand?
Works for salvation!
Legalism!
Hebrew Roots!
EVERYTHING in love!
To the point of total BLINDNESS!
Love, isn't just "A" fruit of the Spirit!
It's the ONLY fruit of the Spirit! They haven't pounded THIS into your coconut yet? Don't "believe" 'em? Just ASK 'em!
EVERY "other" fruit?
Tossed under the bus!
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Greetings PH,
We have had discussions explainaing the seeming contradiction between what you cited and what I cited. Do you remember the discussion?
Remember this scenario is the same today where God made available all that was/is necessary to fulfill His commandments, but both Israel and Many today, have failed to "enter in" by "standing afar off".
Don't you think it would be better to provide the scriptural answer for the seeming contradiction you posted? Leaving it may cause young believers to lose faith in the Word of God, and I know you don't want that.
We have had discussions explainaing the seeming contradiction between what you cited and what I cited. Do you remember the discussion?
Remember this scenario is the same today where God made available all that was/is necessary to fulfill His commandments, but both Israel and Many today, have failed to "enter in" by "standing afar off".
Don't you think it would be better to provide the scriptural answer for the seeming contradiction you posted? Leaving it may cause young believers to lose faith in the Word of God, and I know you don't want that.
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Thank you I want to ask you about this part, though:
When Jesus did not say the law was abolished but that he had fulfilled it,
it meant he fulfilled the laws of Moses so as to make them null and void.
Jesus ministry went on to reiterate, re-state, the ten laws of our Father
as still in effect when he was asked what laws matter still.
Do we argue now our Savior was wrong? And those against that teaching are right?
What I wonder is, where did Jesus command us to keep the Sabbath?
I want to ask you about this part, though:When Jesus did not say the law was abolished but that he had fulfilled it,
it meant he fulfilled the laws of Moses so as to make them null and void.
Jesus ministry went on to reiterate, re-state, the ten laws of our Father
as still in effect when he was asked what laws matter still.
Do we argue now our Savior was wrong? And those against that teaching are right?
What I wonder is, where did Jesus command us to keep the Sabbath?
WELL SAID NayborBear!
Thanks for considering my question, and the meaty answer!
So, do you think they fight the fellowship with Yahshua and our Heavenly Father via obedience Re John 14:21, Because the spiritual powers in high places is, at all costs preventing them from embracing obedience, knowing that if they do they are will discover fellowship with Yahshua and The Father? If so, why do you think they are so easily deceived? Is it because they are NO the elect? Is this synonymous with the words of Yahshua, "My sheep hear my voice".
Have you ever shared the doctrine of "not being subject to the will and commandments of God" ie required obedience to God with other believers who have not spent time with such people? If so how do you find them responding to such a doctrine? I my case they do not believe me. Beleivers for thousands of years walked in obedience to Gods commandments. Many exclaim that "disobedience" or "rebellion to the will of God" is what they were saved from! So how in the world could anyone beleive a gospel that teaches converts not to worry about obedience. I explain how they say they are under Grace and not the Law and they all pause and say that's a perversion! "God's grace brings us to the place where we desire and love the Law. I have had people ask why I bother to talk with about such foolishness, and I have to admit wondering the same myself sometimes, how about you?
Thanks for considering my question, and the meaty answer!
So, do you think they fight the fellowship with Yahshua and our Heavenly Father via obedience Re John 14:21, Because the spiritual powers in high places is, at all costs preventing them from embracing obedience, knowing that if they do they are will discover fellowship with Yahshua and The Father? If so, why do you think they are so easily deceived? Is it because they are NO the elect? Is this synonymous with the words of Yahshua, "My sheep hear my voice".
Have you ever shared the doctrine of "not being subject to the will and commandments of God" ie required obedience to God with other believers who have not spent time with such people? If so how do you find them responding to such a doctrine? I my case they do not believe me. Beleivers for thousands of years walked in obedience to Gods commandments. Many exclaim that "disobedience" or "rebellion to the will of God" is what they were saved from! So how in the world could anyone beleive a gospel that teaches converts not to worry about obedience. I explain how they say they are under Grace and not the Law and they all pause and say that's a perversion! "God's grace brings us to the place where we desire and love the Law. I have had people ask why I bother to talk with about such foolishness, and I have to admit wondering the same myself sometimes, how about you?
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