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So, if you yell and curse and swear and call a homosexual person all kinds of names while at the same time quoting Scripture to him that proves he is a sinner - then what you told him is truth? I say No! Why? Because God is truth and you did not bring God to him. So to say you said the "truth" is just not so.
I would say - you told him facts (not the swearing of course!
) but did not give him truth. Truth is more than facts - truth is bringing God to a person.
You can say it differently - I am not offended by that - I have come to this way of viewing it because of all the abuse I have seen of preachers (and others) throwing "truth" (really facts) at people without love. It always brings disastrous results (except in a few cases where the person is very, very, mature, and can sift out the bad attitudes behind what is said).
I would say - you told him facts (not the swearing of course!
) but did not give him truth. Truth is more than facts - truth is bringing God to a person. You can say it differently - I am not offended by that - I have come to this way of viewing it because of all the abuse I have seen of preachers (and others) throwing "truth" (really facts) at people without love. It always brings disastrous results (except in a few cases where the person is very, very, mature, and can sift out the bad attitudes behind what is said).
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Did Jesus have love when He flipped the tables? Absolutely - Love does not mean one will not do difficult and hard things.
You can state a fact, but if not said in love, it is not truth! (my view!) (Remember that God = truth so did you bring God to the person?)
Expressing love with lies makes no sense - you are right!
Expressing truth without love makes no sense either!
You can state a fact, but if not said in love, it is not truth! (my view!
) (Remember that God = truth so did you bring God to the person?)Expressing love with lies makes no sense - you are right!
Expressing truth without love makes no sense either!
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There may be things that we see differently but it doesn't have to divide us. You and I have disagreed, hard, but I wouldn't have any issue fellowshipping with you and your spouse. I have OSAS friends, dear to me, but I don't agree with that POV. I have Catholic friends, same thing,much I don't agree with etc. If we all met for a coffee I think we'd all realize we could fellowship. Except for the few that put me on ignore,rofl. They're a little off the beam.
BTW I missed where you were called a Nazi, I would have enjoyed seeing that takedown. lol-
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It may not make sense but the truth cannot be overcome by lack of love, or no love.
This is the point
So the example of the preacher making a true statement about homosexuality, is still making a true statement if he were saying it with a heart filled with hate does not make the statement untruthful.
Now I am not stating that this is biblical or the standard of our practice, but the point is always the truth is truth and love is inside of truth not truth inside of love.
This is the point
So the example of the preacher making a true statement about homosexuality, is still making a true statement if he were saying it with a heart filled with hate does not make the statement untruthful.
Now I am not stating that this is biblical or the standard of our practice, but the point is always the truth is truth and love is inside of truth not truth inside of love.
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So, if you yell and curse and swear and call a homosexual person all kinds of names while at the same time quoting Scripture to him that proves he is a sinner - then what you told him is truth? I say No! Why? Because God is truth and you did not bring God to him. So to say you said the "truth" is just not so.
I would say - you told him facts (not the swearing of course!) but did not give him truth. Truth is more than facts - truth is bringing God to a person.
You can say it differently - I am not offended by that - I have come to this way of viewing it because of all the abuse I have seen of preachers (and others) throwing "truth" (really facts) at people without love. It always brings disastrous results (except in a few cases where the person is very, very, mature, and can sift out the bad attitudes behind what is said).
I would say - you told him facts (not the swearing of course!
) but did not give him truth. Truth is more than facts - truth is bringing God to a person. You can say it differently - I am not offended by that - I have come to this way of viewing it because of all the abuse I have seen of preachers (and others) throwing "truth" (really facts) at people without love. It always brings disastrous results (except in a few cases where the person is very, very, mature, and can sift out the bad attitudes behind what is said).
Stating homosexuality is a sin is truth.
The absolute truth of the message is never negated by the lack of love ... it is always truth.
When the truth is delivered in love, that is how God has told us to bring the truth for sure.... but the "absolute" truth of the message/statement stands on its own always otherwise it is not Truth.
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There may be things that we see differently but it doesn't have to divide us. You and I have disagreed, hard, but I wouldn't have any issue fellowshipping with you and your spouse. I have OSAS friends, dear to me, but I don't agree with that POV. I have Catholic friends, same thing,much I don't agree with etc. If we all met for a coffee I think we'd all realize we could fellowship. Except for the few that put me on ignore,rofl. They're a little off the beam. BTW I missed where you were called a Nazi, I would have enjoyed seeing that takedown. lol
BTW I missed where you were called a Nazi, I would have enjoyed seeing that takedown. lol
2nd.......this is a public forum.......and I am sure you are a decent person and if you were my neighbor I would have no problem inviting you over for a steak on the grill or to swim in my spring fed creek or what ever.......BUT make NO mistake.......ANY and ALL fellowship that is based upon GOD between two parties is the TRUTH.....1st JOHN testifies of this.....walking IN the LIGHT and he is IN the LIGHT and when we do this...WE have fellowship ONE with another.........
There is BUT one GOSPEL truth concerning salvation, immersion, what a church is, etc........and the basis of ALL Christian fellowship IS the ROOT of the tree.........I have no problem engaging you, have liked things you have said etc......but ONE of us is dead wrong when it comes to the gospel of salvation.......and the BIBLE is replete with the truth concerning what I just said.....PAUL was clear.....there are those that PEDDLE a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND....it has NO power to save, it is double cursed, all that embrace it are foolish and bewitched........and that GOSPEL boils down to SAVED by faith, but FINISHED by SELF EFFORT
Now I like you, I really do.....you can receive what I just said or you can reject it......It matters not to me....I have dealt with you enough to know that you are fair and honest when it comes to dealing with me....
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Hurt is an emotional reaction that does not define the cause.
God's will and way guides us, involving both truth and love in the Lord. It seems some are talking theory and not living experience, which shows where we are. A child's view is much different from a mature view, but such things miss many. God bless you
God's will and way guides us, involving both truth and love in the Lord. It seems some are talking theory and not living experience, which shows where we are. A child's view is much different from a mature view, but such things miss many. God bless you
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So, if you yell and curse and swear and call a homosexual person all kinds of names while at the same time quoting Scripture to him that proves he is a sinner - then what you told him is truth? I say No! Why? Because God is truth and you did not bring God to him. So to say you said the "truth" is just not so.
I would say - you told him facts (not the swearing of course!) but did not give him truth. Truth is more than facts - truth is bringing God to a person.
You can say it differently - I am not offended by that - I have come to this way of viewing it because of all the abuse I have seen of preachers (and others) throwing "truth" (really facts) at people without love. It always brings disastrous results (except in a few cases where the person is very, very, mature, and can sift out the bad attitudes behind what is said).
I would say - you told him facts (not the swearing of course!
) but did not give him truth. Truth is more than facts - truth is bringing God to a person. You can say it differently - I am not offended by that - I have come to this way of viewing it because of all the abuse I have seen of preachers (and others) throwing "truth" (really facts) at people without love. It always brings disastrous results (except in a few cases where the person is very, very, mature, and can sift out the bad attitudes behind what is said).
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John says we know Jesus because we love those in Him.
Amen. So those saved and showing His fruit. So if we meet the fruit of rejection and condemnation without a subject, are these brothers at all?
They say they know Jesus in a new way, and push people away. Odd. Jesus was very different
Amen. So those saved and showing His fruit. So if we meet the fruit of rejection and condemnation without a subject, are these brothers at all?
They say they know Jesus in a new way, and push people away. Odd. Jesus was very different
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Well, first of all it was not a take down, but maybe a hypocrite speaking out both sides of her mouth........I.E> in one breath peddling speech seasoned with love and grace and in the next attacking me, my family and calling me all sorts of names like NAZI, commie etc.....so.....par for the course with this particular person........
Humm wondering if we had a run in with the same person... Oh, and I meant your take down of them,not the other way round.
2nd.......this is a public forum.......and I am sure you are a decent person and if you were my neighbor I would have no problem inviting you over for a steak on the grill or to swim in my spring fed creek or what ever.......BUT make NO mistake.......ANY and ALL fellowship that is based upon GOD between two parties is the TRUTH.....1st JOHN testifies of this.....walking IN the LIGHT and he is IN the LIGHT and when we do this...WE have fellowship ONE with another......…
Thanks....I think. I guess I look at from the standpoint of ministry. People who know me here know I traveled in ministry, I did so for 20yrs. We had one rule, we preach Christ and Him crucified. Jesus is the only way to be saved. As long as they agreed with that, we went. I sang in all denominations, United churches, UPC churches and even Catholic churches. I felt comfortable in all churches. Did I agree with all? No, Could I fellowship with all? Yes. And people got saved in all different denominations we went to. Now as far as truth I believe evangelicals, for the most part, believe the same main truths. When we get into Catholics and the pope, worship of Mary, I can't agree with that. I'm pretty clear on what I believe. Now, being Pentecostal, I've been told I believe if one doesn't speak in tongues they are lost, which I do not believe. People don't know the difference between Holiness Pentecostals and,well, the rest of us. My main point here is we can have fellowship and not agree on certain points. I don't see OSAS in the Bible yet I'm willing to listen. And brother EG has patiently tried to convince me We disagree on that issue but we can still have fellowship. I think he agrees. So are you saying if a person doesn't attend your church you can't have fellowship with them? Or am I missing what you're saying?
There is BUT one GOSPEL truth concerning salvation, immersion, what a church is, etc........and the basis of ALL Christian fellowship IS the ROOT of the tree.........I have no problem engaging you, have liked things you have said etc......but ONE of us is dead wrong when it comes to the gospel of salvation.......and the BIBLE is replete with the truth concerning what I just said.....PAUL was clear.....there are those that PEDDLE a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND....it has NO power to save, it is double cursed, all that embrace it are foolish and bewitched........and that GOSPEL boils down to SAVED by faith, but FINISHED by SELF EFFORT
Oh hello?! What dirt road did we turn down here? Slow up. Where did I ever indicate I didn't believe we are saved by grace?! What "different Gospel" are you talking about? Bewitched?! I think we need a little come to Jesus moment here, what exactly do you think I believe?!
Now I like you, I really do.....
Well now, don't do me any favors.
you can receive what I just said or you can reject it......It matters not to me....I have dealt with you enough to know that you are fair and honest when it comes to dealing with me....
I try to be fair and honest with everyone. Some are easier than others to do that with. I guess I've gotten use to you over time. But I did not think we disagreed to the point that you think I believe and peddle a false Gospel. Not to mention being bewitched by that false Gospel. Or to mention saying you could attend a friendly bbq,(but you're lost and on your way to hell BTW.) My bad, I guess I thought I had more brothers and sisters in Christ here then I actually do. My mistake. Perhaps I ought to take my leave if those I thought I had fellowship with see me as preaching a false Gospel. I guess I better find a way to contact those people who came to the Lord when I was in ministry and let them know I was leading them to hell all along. Thanks, I appreciate knowing where I stand with people.
Humm wondering if we had a run in with the same person... Oh, and I meant your take down of them,not the other way round.
2nd.......this is a public forum.......and I am sure you are a decent person and if you were my neighbor I would have no problem inviting you over for a steak on the grill or to swim in my spring fed creek or what ever.......BUT make NO mistake.......ANY and ALL fellowship that is based upon GOD between two parties is the TRUTH.....1st JOHN testifies of this.....walking IN the LIGHT and he is IN the LIGHT and when we do this...WE have fellowship ONE with another......…
Thanks....I think. I guess I look at from the standpoint of ministry. People who know me here know I traveled in ministry, I did so for 20yrs. We had one rule, we preach Christ and Him crucified. Jesus is the only way to be saved. As long as they agreed with that, we went. I sang in all denominations, United churches, UPC churches and even Catholic churches. I felt comfortable in all churches. Did I agree with all? No, Could I fellowship with all? Yes. And people got saved in all different denominations we went to. Now as far as truth I believe evangelicals, for the most part, believe the same main truths. When we get into Catholics and the pope, worship of Mary, I can't agree with that. I'm pretty clear on what I believe. Now, being Pentecostal, I've been told I believe if one doesn't speak in tongues they are lost, which I do not believe. People don't know the difference between Holiness Pentecostals and,well, the rest of us. My main point here is we can have fellowship and not agree on certain points. I don't see OSAS in the Bible yet I'm willing to listen. And brother EG has patiently tried to convince me
We disagree on that issue but we can still have fellowship. I think he agrees. So are you saying if a person doesn't attend your church you can't have fellowship with them? Or am I missing what you're saying? There is BUT one GOSPEL truth concerning salvation, immersion, what a church is, etc........and the basis of ALL Christian fellowship IS the ROOT of the tree.........I have no problem engaging you, have liked things you have said etc......but ONE of us is dead wrong when it comes to the gospel of salvation.......and the BIBLE is replete with the truth concerning what I just said.....PAUL was clear.....there are those that PEDDLE a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND....it has NO power to save, it is double cursed, all that embrace it are foolish and bewitched........and that GOSPEL boils down to SAVED by faith, but FINISHED by SELF EFFORT
Oh hello?! What dirt road did we turn down here? Slow up. Where did I ever indicate I didn't believe we are saved by grace?! What "different Gospel" are you talking about? Bewitched?! I think we need a little come to Jesus moment here, what exactly do you think I believe?!
Now I like you, I really do.....
Well now, don't do me any favors.
you can receive what I just said or you can reject it......It matters not to me....I have dealt with you enough to know that you are fair and honest when it comes to dealing with me....
I try to be fair and honest with everyone. Some are easier than others to do that with. I guess I've gotten use to you over time. But I did not think we disagreed to the point that you think I believe and peddle a false Gospel. Not to mention being bewitched by that false Gospel. Or to mention saying you could attend a friendly bbq,(but you're lost and on your way to hell BTW.) My bad, I guess I thought I had more brothers and sisters in Christ here then I actually do. My mistake. Perhaps I ought to take my leave if those I thought I had fellowship with see me as preaching a false Gospel. I guess I better find a way to contact those people who came to the Lord when I was in ministry and let them know I was leading them to hell all along. Thanks, I appreciate knowing where I stand with people.
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@kaylagrl --->Nooooo...don't misunderstand me.......I was speaking in generalities in most points I made.............the only thing I directed at you out of everything I said can be summed up in...
a. True Christian fellowship is based entirely upon the truth
b. There is one correct message of salvation not two or more
c. ONE of us is dead wrong (either it is eternally given by faith or it is losable and maintained by man)
and no need to jump the fence and start adding to what I said in the accusatory tone.....I never said anything of the sort in your last paragraph
a. True Christian fellowship is based entirely upon the truth
b. There is one correct message of salvation not two or more
c. ONE of us is dead wrong (either it is eternally given by faith or it is losable and maintained by man)
and no need to jump the fence and start adding to what I said in the accusatory tone.....I never said anything of the sort in your last paragraph
A number of people of faith seem to be warriors, but they are faith no fruit warriors, against aggressively workers, in the most extreme sense.
So you find oneself dethroned, defellowshiped, and locked out because truth says you are evil, deceived etc.
I think this is actually a disassociation disorder, draw you in close and then dump you. Nothing to do with faith, it is just dressed up this way.
Why draw people in to floor them, why not share the open love, meet my Lord. Many are thrown by this sucker punch, and like the guy. But to hurt like this is not functional. God bless you sister.
Your ministry is good. and a blessing, praise the Lord
So you find oneself dethroned, defellowshiped, and locked out because truth says you are evil, deceived etc.
I think this is actually a disassociation disorder, draw you in close and then dump you. Nothing to do with faith, it is just dressed up this way.
Why draw people in to floor them, why not share the open love, meet my Lord. Many are thrown by this sucker punch, and like the guy. But to hurt like this is not functional. God bless you sister.
Your ministry is good. and a blessing, praise the Lord
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Did Jesus have love when He flipped the tables? Absolutely - Love does not mean one will not do difficult and hard things.
You can state a fact, but if not said in love, it is not truth! (my view!) (Remember that God = truth so did you bring God to the person?)
Expressing love with lies makes no sense - you are right!
Expressing truth without love makes no sense either!
You can state a fact, but if not said in love, it is not truth! (my view!
) (Remember that God = truth so did you bring God to the person?)Expressing love with lies makes no sense - you are right!
Expressing truth without love makes no sense either!
yikes!
when a non-Christian reads the OT, they are not really going to have much of an opinion about how loving God is
when you witness to people, that is often the first thing they come up
goes like this 'if God loves everyone so much than why does He.......' you might have heard that?
I'll that it would be difficult to prove Jesus loved...you say that because you believe
I would equally say that you cannot point at someone and say the do not love because they have a harsher tone
I have seen enough fake love in these forums to turn me off completely
no witness for Christ at all
people do not understand that the main attribute of God is holiness...love, truth...every attribute that He has
when people start mushing about love and we should just love love love, I immediately understand the do not actually have a biblical understand of God's love
I am not addressing all that to you personally, but your post sparked the above
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To be defellowshiped by a believer.
The oddest thing is to come in love and faith and then find those who should be friends act as enemies and then say one is a heretic. That's a puzzle unless they are lying.
Wow, faith is passive, repentance is a mind shift and sin can be ignored. But keep scripture, the bits you like and ignore the rest, make a new spirit morality, true Christianity made. And the rest evil self righteous hypocrites who should be destroyed. No passive reaching out, rubbish them, bs them, talk about puke, crap, evil, deceived, isolate and hope they get angry and are burnt.....
It works because no elect expect to meet a wolf in sheep's clothing or be torn assunder. But there you have it, God bless you all
The oddest thing is to come in love and faith and then find those who should be friends act as enemies and then say one is a heretic. That's a puzzle unless they are lying.
Wow, faith is passive, repentance is a mind shift and sin can be ignored. But keep scripture, the bits you like and ignore the rest, make a new spirit morality, true Christianity made. And the rest evil self righteous hypocrites who should be destroyed. No passive reaching out, rubbish them, bs them, talk about puke, crap, evil, deceived, isolate and hope they get angry and are burnt.....
It works because no elect expect to meet a wolf in sheep's clothing or be torn assunder. But there you have it, God bless you all
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