Once saved always saved? Or is salvation conditional on believing and following God's Word?
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Appreciated bro.
I've oft wrestled with the concept, because there is a false version of salvation that masquerades as truth...it's just hard to tell for certain people that aren't intentionally preaching it.
I have my own doubts, but this has helped me a bit as some ammo for my own inner dialogue
My question is not whether or not you can lose it, but if you even have it in the first place. Like "the form of godliness but denying the power thereof" scripture and what exactly that means. I believe that he is mighty to save yes, but I also believe that each person has their own unique standard to bear up under (cross to bear possibly?), with discipline and correction along the way as we are maturing (sanctification). So there is some type of inward change with consistent progression throughout our lives. If not, I would be seriously concerned about them.
I think each person's daily crucifixion of the flesh looks different and I'm not going to judge them unilaterally, just question them and their salvation. Privately. In my own mind. It does however raise questions in my prayer life that seemingly go unanswered.
Like knowing someone is living in sin and claims to follow Christ...I just wonder, is your pastor not teaching correctly or are you in willful rebellion and how is that even possible? Then consequently feeling guilty for not pointing it out.
A particular person came to mind, so I will think about how to broach the subject.
Some other questions I was pondering seemed to answer themselves so that's cool
So almost a pointless post except that where I am right now made a lot more sense typing it out so that's certainly something to praise about!
For me a lot of this gets confusing because one of my earliest memories was when I asked Jesus to come into my heart and to save me so I just don't have much else to compare it to.
Except that it has been a constant battle my whole life. Filled with tons of vain imagination that I didn't realize until much later were "unproductive" at the very best. At worst...harlotry. Certainly has been with lust...and certain other things that I won't mention at present, just that the enemy hasn't ever been far away for me and the personal nature of the attacks get confusing...
I'd certainly like to explain what my lifelong journey has been like but I can in no way do so. There are certain doubts that I have that I don't believe can be explained with fleshly limitations. Like we can't see in the perfect as we are imperfect. We are being perfected certainly...and I am constantly surprised at the process of sanctification. I rarely take a trip down memory lane intentionally but I can't even fathom half of the headspaces I've been in, certain sins are super far removed from me that it's almost like they didn't even happen. That wasn't me...but it was me? I am now a new me? Did that make me unsaved before? Am I even saved now? Is this what sanctification looks like? Months feel like years sometimes and I feel "old"...but young at the same time.
I think it's possible I go astray a lot...in my own thinking and he brings me back.
Or potentially I am deluded, was not saved to begin with, my whole life is a lie and I won't ever be...I rebuke thoughts like that.
At present I'm just resting in Phillipians 2:12 and that it's a process of understanding what it means personally. Like the work of the word...in my own personal life, in situations, at work. I read scripture a lot of places but mostly it's just for confirmation that I'm on the right track sometimes. Not in some other footrace on a different "way".
Other times it's like a banquet or a meager meal (if I'm lazy/tired).
I suppose I've expounded a good bit in other threads and will continue to do so. Thanks once again for putting it like that.
I often wonder if sometimes our disagreements would come out rather different in person when we actually met the person. I can feel an "echo" of them online but it's fainter and possibly that could be factored in some fashion.
I've oft wrestled with the concept, because there is a false version of salvation that masquerades as truth...it's just hard to tell for certain people that aren't intentionally preaching it.
I have my own doubts, but this has helped me a bit as some ammo for my own inner dialogue
My question is not whether or not you can lose it, but if you even have it in the first place. Like "the form of godliness but denying the power thereof" scripture and what exactly that means. I believe that he is mighty to save yes, but I also believe that each person has their own unique standard to bear up under (cross to bear possibly?), with discipline and correction along the way as we are maturing (sanctification). So there is some type of inward change with consistent progression throughout our lives. If not, I would be seriously concerned about them.
I think each person's daily crucifixion of the flesh looks different and I'm not going to judge them unilaterally, just question them and their salvation. Privately. In my own mind. It does however raise questions in my prayer life that seemingly go unanswered.
Like knowing someone is living in sin and claims to follow Christ...I just wonder, is your pastor not teaching correctly or are you in willful rebellion and how is that even possible? Then consequently feeling guilty for not pointing it out.
A particular person came to mind, so I will think about how to broach the subject.
Some other questions I was pondering seemed to answer themselves so that's cool
So almost a pointless post except that where I am right now made a lot more sense typing it out so that's certainly something to praise about!
For me a lot of this gets confusing because one of my earliest memories was when I asked Jesus to come into my heart and to save me so I just don't have much else to compare it to.
Except that it has been a constant battle my whole life. Filled with tons of vain imagination that I didn't realize until much later were "unproductive" at the very best. At worst...harlotry. Certainly has been with lust...and certain other things that I won't mention at present, just that the enemy hasn't ever been far away for me and the personal nature of the attacks get confusing...
I'd certainly like to explain what my lifelong journey has been like but I can in no way do so. There are certain doubts that I have that I don't believe can be explained with fleshly limitations. Like we can't see in the perfect as we are imperfect. We are being perfected certainly...and I am constantly surprised at the process of sanctification. I rarely take a trip down memory lane intentionally but I can't even fathom half of the headspaces I've been in, certain sins are super far removed from me that it's almost like they didn't even happen. That wasn't me...but it was me? I am now a new me? Did that make me unsaved before? Am I even saved now? Is this what sanctification looks like? Months feel like years sometimes and I feel "old"...but young at the same time.
I think it's possible I go astray a lot...in my own thinking and he brings me back.
Or potentially I am deluded, was not saved to begin with, my whole life is a lie and I won't ever be...I rebuke thoughts like that.
At present I'm just resting in Phillipians 2:12 and that it's a process of understanding what it means personally. Like the work of the word...in my own personal life, in situations, at work. I read scripture a lot of places but mostly it's just for confirmation that I'm on the right track sometimes. Not in some other footrace on a different "way".
Other times it's like a banquet or a meager meal (if I'm lazy/tired).
I suppose I've expounded a good bit in other threads and will continue to do so. Thanks once again for putting it like that.
I often wonder if sometimes our disagreements would come out rather different in person when we actually met the person. I can feel an "echo" of them online but it's fainter and possibly that could be factored in some fashion.
GOD foreknew who would believe and be saved
God CALLS them to salvation
GOD deals a measure of FAITH to them
GOD saves them
God justifies them
God SEALS them
God SANCTIFIES them forever <--HEBREWS
JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith in us and the CALL and GIFTS of GOD are irrevocable <---SALVATION IS A GIFT the bible states this CLEARLY and NOTE the bolded.
The simplicity found in CHRIST---->It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE!
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The very fact of the struggle seems to me proof that you are saved Mii and that Holy Spirit is at work in you.
If it were not so, you wouldn’t care.
Negative thoughts are hard to deal with without replacing them with the truth of scripture. I would think that this is where you are right now in your walk. Search the scripture, ask for His help, to find the word of faith that counteracts the thoughts of negativity.
This is the battle we all go through. Renewing the mind.
Once you start, if you haven’t already that is, it becomes exciting. The scriptures are just that.
If it were not so, you wouldn’t care.
Negative thoughts are hard to deal with without replacing them with the truth of scripture. I would think that this is where you are right now in your walk. Search the scripture, ask for His help, to find the word of faith that counteracts the thoughts of negativity.
This is the battle we all go through. Renewing the mind.
Once you start, if you haven’t already that is, it becomes exciting. The scriptures are just that.
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Amen! 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Roman Catholicism refers to this as the "sin of presumption." I even once heard a Roman Catholic priest say the Greek word for "know" in 1 John 5:13 is "uncertain" and you "can't know for sure."
Roman Catholicism refers to this as the "sin of presumption." I even once heard a Roman Catholic priest say the Greek word for "know" in 1 John 5:13 is "uncertain" and you "can't know for sure."
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E
Amen! 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Roman Catholicism refers to this as the "sin of presumption." I even once heard a Roman Catholic priest say the Greek word for "know" in 1 John 5:13 is "uncertain" and you "can't know for sure."
Roman Catholicism refers to this as the "sin of presumption." I even once heard a Roman Catholic priest say the Greek word for "know" in 1 John 5:13 is "uncertain" and you "can't know for sure."
wow!! lol.. Where do these people come up with this stuff?
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Lord knows many of us were in that place sister!
That's why as frustrating as it is we have to try and be patient, at least at first, with these works guys. I only hope they will come to their senses BEFORE a serious, painful correction from God.
Or maybe we should just pray for that serious, painful correction instead. It would be faaar better for them!
That's why as frustrating as it is we have to try and be patient, at least at first, with these works guys. I only hope they will come to their senses BEFORE a serious, painful correction from God.
Or maybe we should just pray for that serious, painful correction instead. It would be faaar better for them!
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*cough* brother mcgee *cough*
😁
Amen brother.... God used many of His children to help correct me... some more soft... some more harsh... but all fighting for the truth...
even then it was impossible for them
I needed to be convinced by Gods word... I had many long nights where I set my understanding at Gods feet and just wanted to see what HE wanted me to see
I can admit where I am wrong but I need to be convinced... and I only trusted God more than my own understanding
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Interesting interaction between a believer in immortal rebirth and repentance, faith and walking
I shared the 4 spiritual laws, a classic presentation of the gospel of Jesus and redemption.
The fruit of immortal rebirth is the gospel is now bad intentions, behaviour modification.
In a real sense this is the condemnation of all people who came to Christ in Billy Graham missions,
or any other preaching for repentance of sin, turning to God and walking in His ways through the cross.
Anyone who condemns this as bad intentions is truly lost.
Today is sad, because I did not expect this, but again if one goes to a church that teaches you are forgiven
redeemed and made whole without repentance and sorrow, and have no apparent things you need to change,
little wonder you end up in this strange faith world where nice people encounter God and it is all safe and
full of roses with no cost or difficulties.
What is worrying to a degree is the language sounds christian, but its reality is not.
What stops this kind of approach is persecution and hard times, because then life realities really come and
confront the "believer" with some difficult issues about their heart and their walk.
God bless you all.
I shared the 4 spiritual laws, a classic presentation of the gospel of Jesus and redemption.
The fruit of immortal rebirth is the gospel is now bad intentions, behaviour modification.
In a real sense this is the condemnation of all people who came to Christ in Billy Graham missions,
or any other preaching for repentance of sin, turning to God and walking in His ways through the cross.
Anyone who condemns this as bad intentions is truly lost.
Today is sad, because I did not expect this, but again if one goes to a church that teaches you are forgiven
redeemed and made whole without repentance and sorrow, and have no apparent things you need to change,
little wonder you end up in this strange faith world where nice people encounter God and it is all safe and
full of roses with no cost or difficulties.
What is worrying to a degree is the language sounds christian, but its reality is not.
What stops this kind of approach is persecution and hard times, because then life realities really come and
confront the "believer" with some difficult issues about their heart and their walk.
God bless you all.
I have read the parable of the sower. I can't say I have it all figured out. You have those who do believe for a little while but then tribulation or persecution comes on account of the word, they fall away.( see Mark 4:16-17) Perhaps the key word here is tribulation and persecution. These are things that test someone's faith. Some fall away in those times of persecution but others faith becomes even stronger. It is not a Christian's job to keep themselves saved. God gives his children grace in times of trouble and persecutions.
In Ephesians 5:25-27 we see the plan and purpose Christ had in mind:
" Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
Jesus fulfilled his mission in coming and paying for our sins on the cross and rising again the third day. He will also fulfill his purpose in presenting to himself his church as faultless and holy before him.
In Ephesians 5:25-27 we see the plan and purpose Christ had in mind:
" Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
Jesus fulfilled his mission in coming and paying for our sins on the cross and rising again the third day. He will also fulfill his purpose in presenting to himself his church as faultless and holy before him.
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