Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

We're talking about believers right? To what degree of sinning or sins does the love of God stop? In other words what sins or how many sins can a believer commit before God says alright I'm done with you, you're no longer saved?

I would say Revelations is Torah/Instructional

Interesting question KJV,

Seems to me not to be a matter of quantity, rather a heart attitude towards sin that would make the call.

Be reminded of the heart attitude of the day you were brought to repentance. Remember how zealous you were to do good works of repentance and righteousness. That can slip, especially if all you think of every day is why you don't have to keep yourself from sinning. Not saying you are just saying the topic can tend towards diluting the dedication of some to becoming more Christlike.

That said addressing the initial zeal and the importance of preserving or returning to it;

Rev 2:5 KJV Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Revelation is not the law of Moses.
That's silly.

If it has to be spelled out not to eat anything strangled then look for that.

Just looking at "Torah" as anything that instructs;

Would that be the heart of the old man or the new man?
The old man was crucified with Christ (he can't resurrect as far as I know), the new man was born of God and cannot sin.

Reference verses:

Old Man
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

New Man
1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

I think you think I'm talking about something I am not.

Did the council give the gentiles commands from the law of the Sinai covenant aka Moses law aka Torah aka "the law" or not?

If yes, what? Where is strangled / meat that might have been blessed by a idol in there?
If no, then what are these instructions, and why?

This is about, someone is taking acts 15:29 to say the gentiles are being given commands from Moses. Is that true, or is that person wrong?
If they are wrong, then what is the actual truth of it?

First things first. Can we find 'do not eat strangled / blessed by idol meat' in the 5 books of the law?
If all we find is 'well thou shalt have not other gods' so we can infer something then we're saying they're being given rules from Talmud, not from Torah. What I want to know is if those rules are actually specifically things forbidden in the law of Moses?

Let's take a look at the context.

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle (The Veil that is to say, his flesh), not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh ( purge your conscience (our inner man)): How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience (our inner man, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh ) from dead works (sin, acts the cause death. For the wages of sins death) to serve the living God?
(Heb 9:11-14 KJV)

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect (purge your conscience, our inner man, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh ). For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged (sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh ) should have had no more conscience of sins (sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh) . But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins (sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh ). Wherefore when he (Jesus) cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I (the writer of Hebrews or us for that Matter), Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he (Jesus), Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified (our inner man purged, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh )through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: (purge our conscience, our inner man, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh from dead works, sin, acts the cause death to serve the living God) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected (purge our conscience our inner man, sanctified to the purifying of the flesh from dead works, sin acts the cause death to serve the living God) for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof (BECAUSE this is how they are perfected) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus (perfected, purge our conscience our inner man, sanctified to the purifying of the flesh from dead works, sin acts the cause death to serve the living God) , By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh ( The true Tabernacle, not made by hands); And having an high priest over the house (Us through the veil that is His flesh, the Body of Christ, the Temple) of God; Let us draw near with a true heart (Perfected, laws in our hearts, and in our minds) in full assurance of faith (boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus), having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience (the old man purged to serve the living God), and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; ) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For (BECAUSE) if we sin wilfully after that we have received (Getting) the knowledge (recognition) of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins....Let us go on unto perfection (sanctified to the purifying of the flesh from dead works, sin acts the cause death to serve the living God); not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works (sin, acts the cause death. For the wages of sins death) , and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened (Illuminated, having received (Got) the knowledge (recognition) of the truth), and have tasted (experienced) of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers (sharers) of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted (experienced) the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, (sin willfully) to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


(Heb 10:1-26; 6:1-6)

Don't just play word games dear.

You know better, and you know what I mean.

• Someone said the instructions to the Gentiles in Acts 15 are from Moses Law
• Revelation is not from Moses.
• I can't find 'don't eat anything that has been waved before an idol' in Torah, or 'don't eat anything that has been strangled'
• If the rationale is that they were telling the Gentiles they must obey the law of Exodus 34 Exodus 34 doesn't say anything about not eating strangled or waves-in-front-of-idol food. It says literally, Destroy all the idol centers. That's not what the church did or instructed, so I think you are wrong. That is not the rationale here.
• It is significant that the council gives these specific instructions and refuses to instruct 'keep the law'
• If these are not things specifically in the law it is wrong to say they are
• If they are not things in the law then the significance of these things is something entirely different
• We ought to understand exactly what the significance is, both so were not deceived and so we don't go about preaching deception to others
• It would be deception to say they are being told to keep Torah.
• It would be deception to say they are being told to keep the interpretations in the Talmud.

You’re right! Abraham and David were justified by grace through faith. Well, I don’t claim to have a perfect understanding of Scripture – I’m here to learn, not to teach.

I think the term “salvation by grace” is quite confusing, so let me put my statement another way: Salvation by the blood of Jesus was not available before the crucifixion.

It is evident in the Gospels that the physical Jesus never preached redemption by his blood. When the rich young ruler asked about eternal life, the Lord answer: “Keep the commandments”.

Throughout the four gospels we see the Lord Jesus expounding the Law of Moses and not once did he tell his disciples to stop keeping it.

So, my question is: Who told us to stop keeping the Law of Moses? I would like to hear your opinion about this.

In reference to Rev 2:5 and it's correlation the the verses in Hebrews you were seeking answers to...the one being addressed there. And don't tell me your dog ate your homework!

these gentiles WERE told to follow a dietary law that IS in the Torah

In my opinion Revelation 2:5 has no relationship with Hebrews 10 because Revelation 2:5 is written to an entire church concerning losing their lamp stand while Hebrews is about individuals hearing the truth that they are sinners and continuing in their sins rather than accepting the free gift. They received KNOWLEDGE... not salvation. Once a person is aware of their sins (by hearing the word), and they reject the remedy, there is no more sacrifice for their sins.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

That's all that Hebrews 10:26 is talking about, hearing the word, rejecting it, and not being covered by the blood. This some how gets conflated into a believer who sins willfully losing their salvation.

And again I ask, which man, the old man who is crucified (dead) or the new man (that can not sin), WILLFULLY sins? The answer is neither, because it's not possible for either sin period.

That means Hebrews 10 CANNOT be talking about a believer. It's not possible.

an animal properly slaughtered (i.e. killed by draining its blood)

Are they?

Where is no-strangled-meat and where is no-food-that-has-been-blessed-by-idols in the Law?

I'm trying to determine if this is 'because you say so' or if it's actually true.

I looked. I can't find it. Show me the verses, please?

Is that how you hunt deer? Bleeding them to death?

That's bogus.

You can drain the blood from an animal no matter how it's killed, I don't see 'you must only eat what has been killed by bleeding to death' in scripture, and moreover then the council is being superfluous because they already said, don't eat blood.

So then you were not looking for an answer? Just an opportunity to give yours?

You could have just made a statement.

Yes, you have moved this "conversation" to "confrontation" and I see no wisdom in that.