What do you believe and why do you believe it?

The bible is the factual story and history of the relationship between modern man and God from the dawn of history. It is not fiction!

So you are using your past experiences with Christians to suggest that I am trying to shut down meaningful discussion? And implying that I trying to shut down discussion because I have lost the debate? Or am I not understanding you?

So then if science doesn't prove anything with absolute truth statements, then you have no way of knowing what is truth - you can make guesses and assumptions, but you might be wrong - you admit that here . . .

I begin with a totally different premise - that God was in the beginning and He is truth.

It is believing in God that is the crux of the matter. The book shows us His plan for humanity and the history of His chosen people with Him, which also highlights the human condition being in constant rebellion against Him, which is the plight of every unregenerated man, woman, and child. Life, which you acknowledge as being precious, is a gift from God, though naturally you do not agree with this when you deny the existence of God. Still, God will not be giving MORE life to those who deny Him as being the Giver of life in the first place.

The problem now as I see it is that by being here and continuing to argue against what you are being told, you are simply solidifying your position in standing against faith. I understand it is natural for you to do this, for it is the state everyone is born into, being an enemy of God and hostile toward Him. But it does not serve you on this site, and calling the Bible a book of myths and folk tales is very disrespectful toward the very people you came to this site to seek answers from.

It could be argued that "basic assumptions around situational ethics are arbitrary" - Exactly - unless you have some kind of a measuring stick that is truth! (which I have and you don't! ) I will not agree that pleasure is preferable to pain, or that health is preferable to disease, etc. - I absolutely not will agree with your "bedrock assumptions" - How do you come up with them? You are coming up with an "arbitrary optimum wellbeing" that you think can be measured in your own way! How do you know you are right? Maybe Hitlar was right after all and you are wrong?

And what you are saying Christians do to convince their teenagers is another assumption you make which is not how I operate at all with my teenagers.



Now what kind of accusation is that - accusing me of being "willfully ignorant"?? !! You are judging my motives -- You may do that if you want, it is OK with me - but I prefer just to deal with facts . . .


"Reality is the way the Universe works - best understood by a scientific method"

I challenged these assertions earlier, and you seem to have no substance to support them. Now you are just restating them. I will not agree with statements without supporting evidence.

I disagree that the scientific method is the best way - in fact at a different place you admitted that 100% truth cannot be undisputedly found using the scientific method. And you have never answered how we can use human reasoning as a basis when "human reasoning" came about by random processes.

Now here you switch and say "instinctively most of us know" - so are you are suggesting that the "instinct" of the majority (most) is what determines objective truth? What are "good" parents? How do you know what a "good" parent is? My idea of a "good" parent is obviously very different than your idea? Are you right and I am wrong?

What kind of a society do I want to live in? Not one that uses random reasoning and instincts and the "scientific method" and majority rule as a basis for objective truth! But I understand that our society is headed down that pathway, so it means I am living in such an environment - but I will not adopt such standards because I have different standards of objective truth. If it means suffering, prison, sickness, etc - that is much preferable to a life of pleasure, ease, prosperity, and selfishness!

You surely do not have to adopt my standards of objective truth, and you may say you have your own standards of objective truth, but I have not seen you prove it yet . . .

You clearly say here that science does not "conclusively prove anything" - Exactly! I am glad you admit that!

How did you come up with this "accepted theory"? Does majority mean it is an "accepted theory"? Or does it take 90%? or 99%? However you decide it - you have no way of knowing if it is true or not?

So why should I try to disprove something that I do not know is true or not? And how can I disprove it with more methods that I have no way of knowing if they are true or not?

You may use science, instinct, reason, etc. to come up with what is "truth" - but you have no way to know if you are right or wrong! You do not have to accept the Bible and God as true, but don't think you can prove some moral goodness or truth if you have no foundation to start with!

I admit my basis as a bias - I choose to believe in God as supreme truth.

Put it this way - if I could bear suffering, prison, or sickness, and it would bring you (or others) to become a part of the reality of God's Kingdom, I would do it!

Science itself has already proven evolution wrong. It's called DNA. It is comprised of a DIGITAl error correcting code that transmits information. The issue isn't the Universe's material (though it is) It is INFORMATION.

The information in the code MUST come from a programmer, or designer, or..... GOD!!

That's why no truly honest secular scientist defends evolution any longer. They KNOW it's fake. Now they still reject God, and come up with even MORE ridiculous theories, but the point is they know evolution is dead.

There is a debate you can find on youtube, it is a debate between a well known atheist scientist, and a christian scientist.

The athiest actually states he agrees there must be a creator. But his excuse is that some advanced lifeform came to earth, and creates human life..

@Spectrox : Jesus is the word of God made into flesh and blood and scoffing the word of God is blasphemy against the Lord. I therefore refuse to enable any attempts to mock his word by engaging in this lubricous deception. You obviously are making no attempt to have faith. Rather you are attempting to sew doubt among the faithful. May God have mercy on you, I quit.

But it's not complicated really. If "in reality" there is no God, if everything in existence "in reality" is a purposeless cosmic accident, then it has to logically follow that no matter what purpose the biological soup that is our brains puts on itself "in reality" means nothing.

Okay when take this case, and we zoom into "us now", then no matter what fancy things or systems we have developed to do so, the fact remains that the only logical purpose of life, if any, is to multiply its own kind. From a real life universal perspective, looking at all existence in a Godless universe, lets say all life on earth was snuffed out overnight by a comet, nothing changes. Right? All our "right and wrong", and we "should" care about others because we just kind of "feel" that's best, all is gone overnight, and ultimately means nothing right? To me this is just the cold hard, hopeless, and pointless truth if there is no God. To claim otherwise is baseless and rooted in nothing more than subjective opinion. I of course never even thought about this kind of thing before He saved me and I've been amazed how many times since being born again, that is my dead spirit being given life through the forgiveness provided in the saving blood of our God and King, Jesus and reconciled to His Spirit for ever (in real life, just like He's calling you now), that I've said "how did I never see that", but the more He grows me, the closer I am drawn into Him, the more I know that I didn't see it before because our fleshly eyes are truly blind to the things of the Spirit. That is the one thing I wish I could get you to understand, but it is something we are incapable of understanding in the flesh. that is why He transforms us to proclaim the truth and uses that truth .

I truly appreciate the conversation and don't want to keep pushing until the point it's counter productive, it's just worth deep thought. If there is no God there can be no ultimate purpose. Again have a great day.

It cannot be a law of faith as it is written and a illusion. Why juggle between the two seeing no man can serve two masters. ?

Its not something we do those metaphors in that parable follow after one hearing the gospel and believing God accompany every believer. The spiritual meaning is hid in that parable . . . the understanding given to those who do believe as it is written . That is a description for one event, By His name or authority He that performs the work in the believer to both will and do His good pleasure. .. There is no law of unbelief as the philosophies of men. You won't find God under a microscope. We walk by faith (believing as it is written) The poison of serpents as philosophies of men as oral traditions will not harm us. . in our new born again tongue we can proclaim the gospel, it can cast out demeons as lying spirits etc.

OOooops typo ludicrous

No im not a nasty individual. But i have to share with you what the Bible says about those who reject Christ. Dont get mad at the messenger.

As a believer yes I have casted out demons. And Ive taken a bunch of pills a few times trying to end my life and nothing happened. I also sat in a car in the garage while the car was running and nothing happened to me.

But I will end our conversation. I can see you are offended. Have a good day.

Now we get the "Christianity is not a religion" special-pleading canard.

From a dictionary:

RELIGION
noun

1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
   "ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
   synonyms:faith, belief, divinity, worship, creed, teaching, doctrine, theology; More
   
   
   
   • a particular system of faith and worship.
     plural noun: religions
     "the world's great religions"

Do you consider Catholics to be Christians? Are they saved?

I was just"nipping it in the bud" before we went down that philosophical cul-de-sac. Did you have something else in mind?

I don't think you really understand the scientific method, which I'm not blaming you for. However, the evidence for how powerful the scientific method is, is all around us.
Do you use IT technology such as a computer or mobile phone (I'm guessing yes!)?
Do you wear clothes made from synthetic fibres?
Do you take medicines or have you ever had surgery?
Have you flown in an aircraft?
Have you had an X-ray or ultrasound scan?
Do you use batteries?
Do you drive a car?
Do you watch the television?

To take advantage of any of these things and then dismiss science is the ultimate hypocrisy.

But faith in what and for what reason? There are lots of alternative faiths out there. How do you determine which, if any, is more likely to be correct?

To paraphrase Bertrand Russell, the main problem with this world is that intelligent, thoughtful people are full of doubt whereas the willfully ignorant are cocksure.