Discernment in visions and dreams

I don't call tongues "a (sic) unknown wonderment"; you do.

None of what you wrote supports your position or refutes mine. The case of Cornelius absolutely undermines your position that tongues are always a sign to unbelievers. No amount of irrelevant convolution is going to change that.

Sure it does you are still saying there is a difference between tongues and prophecy. that easy to see. Then you started something about unbeliever not being there to hear prophecy .

The sign is not tongues, Tongues is prophecy .

Did Cornelius speak in tongues... yes or no?

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Yes, Cornelius spoke in tongues. Were there any non-believers present? No. Was the tongues-speech a sign? Yes. Was it a sign to unbelievers? No.

It's really simple, Garee; the gift of speaking in tongues is not always a sign to unbelievers.

Yes he prophesied.

The sign is for those who belive not. Tongue prophecy for those who do have faith.

Scripture doesn't say that he prophesied; it says he (they) spoke in tongues. Therefore your statement is incorrect.


Do you believe that "tongues" and "speaking in tongues" are the same thing? If not, why not?

I don't call tongues "a (sic) unknown wonderment"; you do.

None of what you wrote supports your position or refutes mine. The case of Cornelius absolutely undermines your position that tongues are always a sign to unbelievers. No amount of irrelevant convolution is going to change that.

Of course they are . . . prophecy prophesying declaring the will of God . What else could prophecy prophesy? a noise without meaning?

One of the manners of prophecy is speaking in tongue .They heard the gospel according to tongues /prophecy . Therefore the law in respect to the tongues doctrine remains a law. And the sign associated with it (God mocking those who mock him in unbelief) remains a sign . Yet for all that they still refuse to believe in tongues, prophecy .

What does the sign confirm ? Faith coming from prophecy as a tongue . . . or the sign of no faith exclusively coming from sola scriptura. or revealed below in

Isaiah 28: 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

To them it was the kind of tongue called a sign gift that men use today to confirm they are filled with the Spirit over and over. falling backward as a unknow force where men would have to seek after the private interpretation of other men . . "find someone that will give you what you want to hear". as oral traditions that does make the word of God without effect.

It sounds like someone tried really hard not to say a word that could be understood and believed. They said in isaiah 28 he speaks to us like we are babies . . Gaga googoo“Saw lasaw saw lasawQaw laqaw qaw laqawZe’er sham ze’er sham. Therefore mocking the word of God.

Paul's testimony also has him praying/speaking in tongues privately.

Its like saying my walk or lifes witness can only be of value to the sinner.
"Sign to this group or that"
The tongues vs prophecy "sign" is not limited to one group. It is only clarifying that tongues is not in the unbelievers carnal dimension. It can not conduct electricity. They are "shorted out" lol

Once again...

Do you believe that "tongues" and "speaking in tongues" are the same thing? If not, why not?

I have answered that. Still waiting for the 213th time for you to confirm what the sign points to and confirms? belief or unbelief?

Yes, prophecy and declaring or speaking the tongue as prophecy, is prophesying.

The sign confirms those who do not believe prophecy the tongue of God.

The tongue is used throughout the bible to indicate we are seeking the approval of words .Not sounds without meaning.

Tongues likened as of fire show we have his approval ,

Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. 1 Kings 18:38 .

Again tongues are used to show one has the approval .Can't seek the approval of God without words that show it.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.Acts 2:3-4

Not as they made noises without meaning..to get filled with something rather than as the Spirit gave them utterance

No such thing as a "sign gift" to confirm a person is being filled with something .

The sign confirms those who do not believe prophecy the tongue of God.

The tongue is used throughout the bible to indicate we are seeking the approval of words .Not sounds without meaning.

What is meant by praying/speaking in tongues privately? Meditating on the word of God as it works in a person ?

Tongues is prophecy. It cannot be against itself. Its prophecy or no prophecy. The sign point to unbelief, no prophecy. God mocking those who refuse to hear His word. . (sola scriptura)

No such thing as a "sign gift" to confirm a person is being filled with something .

I dont know what concept or verses causes you to take that position.
Firstly i would have to assume a prophecy in tongues would be impossible.
That means you are hamstrung from point a.

The sign of tongues demonstrated that Cornelius DID believe, not that he didn't.

DID believe, not that he didn't.

I don't see that in Scripture at all. Please provide three references clearly showing it

Big difference between tongues as prophecy (no outward sign) And the sign of those who do not believe prophecy.

Shown by their continual unbelief (yet for all that they still refuse to believe tongues the word of God ( 1 Corinthians14: and Isaiah 28) .

That which is seen today of those of kind of the oral tradition of "sign gifts" they are walking by sight and not by faith. They do practice and seek after to confirm something filling something as to what they call "unknown tongues" by making noises without meaning called it being filled ..

If a person believes Tongues Prophecy as the word of God the metaphorical signs follow after .They are not seen confirming outwardly , again used as metaphors . it is different as to its use then the sign spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14:22-23. it is not a metaphor but a sign that informs us sign are for those who beleive not prophecy the word of God as Tongues for those who do have faith.

You are turning things upside down again .

The sign that someone has believed comes after.

You do not see it because you deny Tongues is prophecy. Not seeing what is there rather than seeing what is. Tongue is prophecy.

If not prophecy then what? noise? unknown wonderment?

Again tongues. . . God's word is used throughout the bible to indicate we are seeking the approval of words .Not sounds without meaning.

Offering three words . Geneeisis1: "In the beginning" .It would prove what I am offering to be true. They are not sound without meaning or a unknown tongue.

A unseen filling of some unseen wonderment work ?????

I just stumbled in here looking for the topic but something struck me and I'd like some clarification if you would @Dino246

What do you mean one thing cannot mean two distinct opposing things?


You mean tongues being prophecy to a believer and a sign to a non-believer? because I see opposing messages to them that believe not and them that do all over the NT. Like the pharisees interaction with Jesus or End times events and what the people in the world make of them etc.

Or is this argument predicated on whether or not tongues is prophetic? Sorry for jumping in randomly...it just seems somewhat out of place but I am also not very well versed in the topic.

I've heard "tongues" all my life growing up in Pentecostal churches but it has always confused me. It feels like the Lord but I'm not sure.

I've heard some people say it's other languages as per the initial outpouring and Peter's message but also private prayer language as well as prophetic words of encouragement and edification. So I get somewhat confused and have moved away from charismatic understandings, because it's hard to tell. I used to do it myself around 16-18 and then just stopped when I went to college. I didn't hear a whiff of it at the "christian" university I went to. Plenty of other things that I do appreciate but not tongues...so my personal experience and what the word says...I'm open to it, just that there seems to be a false version. I'm just not sure how he feels about it.

I'm on the fence about what prophecy is in general in the modern world. I've had things spoken over me...but thinking back I still don't get stuff like that, regardless of whether or not it seems to come true. Same thing with dreams. There are different sources of these things and so I treat some people with skepticism and some with due consideration.

Not sure, I just feel like mostly tongues is other languages, word of edification, and private prayer. Whereas prophecy is something different. Is it possible they could intersect at times in some people's minds? I suppose.

I just stumbled in here looking for the topic but something struck me and I'd like some clarification if you would @Dino246

What do you mean one thing cannot mean two distinct opposing things?


You mean tongues being prophecy to a believer and a sign to a non-believer? because I see opposing messages to them that believe not and them that do all over the NT. Like the pharisees interaction with Jesus or End times events and what the people in the world make of them etc.

Or is this argument predicated on whether or not tongues is prophetic? Sorry for jumping in randomly...it just seems somewhat out of place but I am also not very well versed in the topic.

I've heard "tongues" all my life growing up in Pentecostal churches but it has always confused me. It feels like the Lord but I'm not sure.

I've heard some people say it's other languages as per the initial outpouring and Peter's message but also private prayer language as well as prophetic words of encouragement and edification. So I get somewhat confused and have moved away from charismatic understandings, because it's hard to tell. I used to do it myself around 16-18 and then just stopped when I went to college. I didn't hear a whiff of it at the "christian" university I went to. Plenty of other things that I do appreciate but not tongues...so my personal experience and what the word says...I'm open to it, just that there seems to be a false version. I'm just not sure how he feels about it.

I'm on the fence about what prophecy is in general in the modern world. I've had things spoken over me...but thinking back I still don't get stuff like that, regardless of whether or not it seems to come true. Same thing with dreams. There are different sources of these things and so I treat some people with skepticism and some with due consideration.

Not sure, I just feel like mostly tongues is other languages, word of edification, and private prayer. Whereas prophecy is something different. Is it possible they could intersect at times in some people's minds? I suppose.