Faith is a work.

To say we are not saved by works is to say we are not saved by faith because the Bible says faith is a work. John 6:29.

To say we are not saved by works is misleading. There are at least 3 or 4 different kinds of works talked about in the Bible. Some works we are not saved by are the works of the Old Testament law of Moses. Galatians. To try to be justified by these you will fall from Grace. Another kind of work are the ones men boast about ( boastful works) these are works that come from men. That ORIGINATE with men. These are not works of God. Some that come to mind are “playing ball for Jesus” or selling chicken dinners to raise money for a good cause. Did Jesus tell you to do these things? Then they didn’t come from him. And we know they were boastful works because in the scene in the gospels when Jesus turns these people away they say “...but Lord we have Done many mighty works in your name. But he will say depart from me you who work lawlessness ( without law or authority from God.) there are other works mentioned in the Bible ( works of the flesh-Galatians) but the most important one you need to remember is that there are also works of God. These works are those that come from God not men and they are commanded by God and they are approved by God. Faith is this kind of wrk in John 6:29. In fact, the Holy Spirit says this is the work of God that you believe. So you are misleading people to say we are not saved by works at all. Plus you are contradicting yourself if you turn around and say we are saved by faith. Mark 12:24- “you do err not knowing the scriptures.”

Hebrews 12:14 New International Version (NIV)
Warning and Encouragement
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Without holiness no one will see the Lord.

The NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. To be "sanctified" is to be "set apart, made holy." Without justification, there is no sanctification. Our ongoing sanctification has no bearing on our justification. That is, even if we don't reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ (Romans 5:1). Those who have been justified by faith have been sanctified/set apart/made holy before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Wow this post got 17 dislikes. I am shocked.

Why are you shocked? The OP said, "To say we are not saved by works is to say we are not saved by faith because the Bible says faith is a work. John 6:29. To say we are not saved by works is misleading..." His flawed premise results in defining faith "as" works and teaching salvation by faith "and" works. I fully understand why it got 17 dislikes.

Hi Mailman you seem pretty strong, about OSAS so nothing I say will be of any benefit to you. It will just be a pointless debate and i am here to help people understand the truths in the bible. I am also willing to learn truths from bible scriptures alone.

My honest intentions with the debate over Judas, wasn't to attack you but to actually help you understand scriptural truths as a (whole) with all scriptures.

But you just disregard the scriptures I put up.

John 6:29 New International Version (NIV)
29 Jesus answered, “(The work of God) is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Not sure maybe the man didnt explain it properly. That's why I just get a scripture.

I have not disregarded the scriptures you put up at all and I have also properly harmonized scripture with scripture in order help you understand the truths in the Bible as a whole, but you seem very satisfied with what you already believe and are determined to continue to attack OSAS regardless of the truth. It's called indoctrination.

Wow this post got 17 dislikes. I am shocked.

John 6:29 New International Version (NIV)
29 Jesus answered, “(The work of God) is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Not sure maybe the man didn't explain it properly. That's why I just get a scripture.

I have not disregarded the scriptures you put up at all and I have also properly harmonized scripture with scripture in order help you understand the truths in the Bible as a whole, but you seem very satisfied with what you already believe and are determined to continue to attack OSAS regardless of the truth. It's called indoctrination.

The man used John 6:29 to imply that faith is a work, just like any other work, as if faith is just another work in a series of works in a quest to be saved by works. It's a typical argument from those who attend the church of Christ (which that man attends) who teach salvation by faith + works.

Sorry this scripture doesn't say faith is a "work". But we are justified by faith that produces good works.

To me faith in Jesus is believe or trust to the point just follow all His command, without any reservation.

Is there element of work?

I am not sure for example to praise the Lord, or reading the Bible, that is verb, and it is part of Christian life, man of faith do praise God, but i do not know if we can say, praising the Lord is faith.

There are no roundabouts on the highway to God. Look straight into the face of Jesus, and follow Him every step of the way.

Here is his quote

"But does not God command us to repent also? Yea, and to 'bring forth fruits meet for repentance'--to cease, for instance, from doing evil, and learn to do well? And is not both the one and the other of the utmost necessity, insomuch that if we willingly neglect either, we cannot reasonably expect to be justified at all? But if this be so, how can it be said that faith is the only condition of justification?" God does undoubtedly command us both to repent, and to bring forth fruits meet for repentance; which if we willingly neglect, we cannot reasonably expect to be justified at all: therefore both repentance, and fruits meet for repentance, are, in some sense, necessary to justification.

But they are not necessary in the same sense with faith, nor in the same degree. Not in the same degree; for those fruits are only necessary conditionally; if there be time and opportunity for them. Otherwise a man may be justified without them, as was the thief upon the cross (if we may call him so; for a late writer has discovered that he was no thief, but a very honest and respectable person!) but he cannot be justified without faith; this is impossible. Likewise, let a man have ever so much repentance, or ever so many of the fruits meet for repentance, yet all this does not at all avail; he is not justified till he believes.

How John Wesley reconciled the thief on the cross, in my opinion, is based on this paragraph. Here is how I understand his argument:

1. Both faith and works are necessary for justification.
2. But faith is more necessary compared to works. Faith is necessary unconditionally/absolutely.
3. Works are only necessary in a conditional sense, provided there is time and opportunity to do them.
4. The thief on the cross had neither the time, nor the opportunity to do works, so he is excused from them.
5. For the rest of us however, we do not have that excuse, so works become necessary for our justification.

This is a rather ingenious argument, I have to say. At least, I am glad that John Wesley is willing to state that he believes that, for most of us, works are necessary for our justification. So his argument avoids that circularity.

Thanks for your information, I am not Methodist but it is good to know what is his argument look like

What happens if a man has faith and has the time and opportunity to do good works but doesn’t do them?

Then according to Wesley, he will not be saved.

Then according to Wesley, he will not be saved.

Instead of Wesley a man? Please quote a scripture Dont trust in man

That seems contradictory to me. Why argue a faith only doctrine if you believe works are so necessary that you can’t be saved without them. ? Don’t get me wrong—I believe in faith wholeheartedly but not faith only. I’m just trying to understand his argument. If good works are absolutely necessary then you don’t have faith only any more.

Instead of Wesley a man? Please quote a scripture Dont trust in man