Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,516
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Do you hate those who teach OBEDIENCE TO GOD as part of salvation or do you hate that teaching which you call a false DOGMA?

NIV1984 Isaiah 5:20-24
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.

NIV1984 1 John 2:3-6
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

NIV1984 2 John 1:6-11
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

Did our Lord Jesus Christ obeyed God and suffered to set an example that we should follow in His steps? Isn't He the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey Him?

NIV1984 Hebrews 5:8-9
Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, ONCE MADE PERFECT, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.

NIV1984 1 Peter 2:20-21
But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

NIV1984 Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him,

Would you suffer for Christ by following His example of OBEDIENCE TO GOD by His sufferings which made Him PERFECT?

NIV1984 Matthew 19:21
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

NIV1984 Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

"No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD."
I didn't see where anyone has taught or preached disobedience to God rather, they/we are teaching forgiveness for our human nature. For those who are really saved by Grace through Faith our sins are cover by the blood of the Lamb forever.

If you wish to preach saved by works go on, you'll have plenty of company with those who choose return to the curse of the law!
 
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
I didn't see where anyone has taught or preached disobedience to God rather, they/we are teaching forgiveness for our human nature. For those who are really saved by Grace through Faith our sins are cover by the blood of the Lamb forever.

If you wish to preach saved by works go on, you'll have plenty of company with those who choose return to the curse of the law!
Amen!

Ephesians 1:4-6
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

1 Corinthians 1:30
And of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
John MacArthur has helped me tremendously in my walk with Christ...May God bless him and use him for many more years...
I love the way he teaches verse by verse...xox...

I too am VERY THANKFUL for Dr. John MacArthur. If you look at those who call him a teacher of FALSE DOCTRINES, most of those are Charismatics, who have been offended by his BOLDNESS to confront their misuse of tongues, Exposing it as a false teaching. Another group that call Dr. MacArthur, a false prophet, is the psuedo Christian Cults, for BOLDLY exposing their teachings and beliefs as non-Christian in nature, such as the Mormons, and Jehovah Witness, among other groups..
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Amen brother.

Focus on Jesus.
Focusing on sin takes our eyes of Jesus and what he has nailed to the cross.
Sin management does not work.

Focus on Jesus then we will sin less because we know he loves us enough to have died for our sin and send us the helper, the Holy Spirit to help us.

Sin management is what we can do for Jesus to earn love and acceptance.
And that leads to a very sad walk with Jesus.

Yet we already have it, love and acceptance.

No need to strive to be but because we are.
AMEN brother.......how is my Brother Bill doing today.....what about 6 pm over there?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
NIV1984 John 5:17-20
Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these.

NIV1984 John 14:12
I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

NIV1984 1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

NIV1984 2 Corinthians 6:1
As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain.

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are working as one to save those who would believe through the church which is the BODY OF CHRIST. If all would stop working after JUSTIFICATION, then who will be saved? Who will reach out to the lost? If JUSTIFICATION through faith alone is all we need to be saved then all who would claim to have faith are saved since Jesus died once and FOR ALL

NIV1984 John 4:34-38
“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

NIV1984 Galatians 6:7-10
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

We were not JUSTIFIED just to CLAIM salvation but to work OUT that salvation as parts of the body of Christ doing His works here on earth through the power and leading of the Holy Spirit for the benefit of others.

NIV1984 1 Peter 1:10-12
Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.




"No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD."


NIV1984 1 John 2:3-6
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

TRUE OBEDIENCE, comes FROM genuine LOVE FOR HIM.

It is not Part of Salvation, however it is PART OF OUR LOVE FOR HIM.
 
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
Do you hate those who teach OBEDIENCE TO GOD as part of salvation or do you hate that teaching which you call a false DOGMA?

NIV1984 Isaiah 5:20-24
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.

NIV1984 1 John 2:3-6
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

NIV1984 2 John 1:6-11
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

Did our Lord Jesus Christ obeyed God and suffered to set an example that we should follow in His steps? Isn't He the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey Him?

NIV1984 Hebrews 5:8-9
Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, ONCE MADE PERFECT, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.

NIV1984 1 Peter 2:20-21
But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

NIV1984 Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him,

Would you suffer for Christ by following His example of OBEDIENCE TO GOD by His sufferings which made Him PERFECT?

NIV1984 Matthew 19:21
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

NIV1984 Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

"No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD."
John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that has heard, and has learned of the Father, comes unto me.

Hebrews 12:2
Looking to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 John 2:27
But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him.

Psalm 73:24
You shall guide me with your counsel
, and afterward receive me to glory.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,516
113
Anaheim, Cali.
I too am VERY THANKFUL for Dr. John MacArthur. If you look at those who call him a teacher of FALSE DOCTRINES, most of those are Charismatics, who have been offended by his BOLDNESS to confront their misuse of tongues, Exposing it as a false teaching. Another group that call Dr. MacArthur, a false prophet, is the psuedo Christian Cults, for BOLDLY exposing their teachings and beliefs as non-Christian in nature, such as the Mormons, and Jehovah Witness, among other groups..
I don't know who he is. I don't have a radio or TV any more but I studied under Dr. Walter Martin, in person, for a couple of years and Pseudo Christian Cults was among his specialties.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,023
4,444
113
AMEN brother.......how is my Brother Bill doing today.....what about 6 pm over there?
All well here bro.
On our way back from a cruise to the Norwegian Fjords.

Tor and I celebrating our 25th Wedding Anniversary.

It's 8 here as I post.

We have had an amazing time.
Seen the beautiful creation of God.
Cruising in the Fjords.
Excuse the pun but it really does float my boat.

I could sit and watch the ocean all day.
When I do I am always reminded of Job 38-42.

It does my heart good, it humbles me.

How is my bro doing?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Amen and Amen!!

I would be delusional in the highest order if I thought I even had anything to bring!!
I hate the idea of earning ones salvation, because it denies love and Gods acceptance of a
repentant sinner.

I have found though, if people desire approval of God, his enveloping love bringing one into
the Kingdom, then arguing they are deceived is not going to bring them in. Rather talking
about how love is the source of all we need to do, and it is our hearts where love needs to
be planted, through the cross and repentance, that things begin to change.

Often those who have had a disapproving father or one who is distant and critical, they view
God like this, rather than one who went to the cross to purchase life for us. A free gift, when
understood, bring change, because it answers questions about proof.

Another trap is belonging to the group who believe they have arrived, the ultimate church,
the right way of doing God. There is only one way to walk, personally, openly, honestly.
And each one has particular issue, victories and defeats. The more I learn about my brothers
and sisters in Christ, the more I see how love expressed through the cross creates diversity not
a mono-culture, but so many different beautiful expressions of who God is, Amen.
 

corazondeldei

Active member
Apr 17, 2019
151
33
28
56
He quite clearly stated he hates the "dogma"

For the record I hate that dogma too!!!
You bring your own obedience and your own righteousness to God and you are in for quite a shock.
Amen and Amen!!

I would be delusional in the highest order if I thought I even had anything to bring!!
TRUE OBEDIENCE, comes FROM genuine LOVE FOR HIM.

It is not Part of Salvation, however it is PART OF OUR LOVE FOR HIM.
I asked dcon and these people replied while dcon sits on his throne. As usual, dcon would not answer questions just like when I asked him about what he can say regarding the body of Christ, but he instead of answering a question went attacking the person. (ad hominem)

Thanks anyway for standing up for what you believe.

I didn't see where anyone has taught or preached disobedience to God rather, they/we are teaching forgiveness for our human nature. For those who are really saved by Grace through Faith our sins are cover by the blood of the Lamb forever.

If you wish to preach saved by works go on, you'll have plenty of company with those who choose return to the curse of the law!
Pls see those posts above. What do you think those people who call those who preach or teach about obedience to God as delusional, workers for salvation, sinless perfectionists, idiotic, peddlers of a false gospel etc...do they preach or teach obedience to God?

Did Jesus, the prophets and apostles preach or teach obedience to God unto salvation?

NIV1984 1 John 3:24
Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

NIV1984 Romans 15:18
I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—

NIV1984 Revelation 3:1-3
...I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

" No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD."
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I asked dcon and these people replied while dcon sits on his throne. As usual, dcon would not answer questions just like when I asked him about what he can say regarding the body of Christ, but he instead of answering a question went attacking the person. (ad hominem)

Thanks anyway for standing up for what you believe.


Pls see those posts above. What do you think those people who call those who preach or teach about obedience to God as delusional, workers for salvation, sinless perfectionists, idiotic, peddlers of a false gospel etc...do they preach or teach obedience to God?

Did Jesus, the prophets and apostles preach or teach obedience to God unto salvation?

NIV1984 1 John 3:24
Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

NIV1984 Romans 15:18
I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—

NIV1984 Revelation 3:1-3
...I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

" No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD."
Like I said....you do not obey...and you cannot even get your last line correct grammatically........but hey.........Seohce A.K.A> Argueless A.K.A> Coranzondeldei.......end of story....Your obedience laced working for dogma that blends faith with self help guru Catholicism saves no one......

When you can be honest about who you really are, confess to everyone on how many times you have been banned.....and then leave in HONOR....you might gain a little truth in your stance
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I asked dcon and these people replied while dcon sits on his throne. As usual, dcon would not answer questions just like when I asked him about what he can say regarding the body of Christ, but he instead of answering a question went attacking the person. (ad hominem)

Thanks anyway for standing up for what you believe.


Pls see those posts above. What do you think those people who call those who preach or teach about obedience to God as delusional, workers for salvation, sinless perfectionists, idiotic, peddlers of a false gospel etc...do they preach or teach obedience to God?

Did Jesus, the prophets and apostles preach or teach obedience to God unto salvation?

NIV1984 1 John 3:24
Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

NIV1984 Romans 15:18
I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—

NIV1984 Revelation 3:1-3
...I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

" No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD."
Have you ever heard the expression "actions speak louder than words" :unsure:

Of maybe this one ..."one shouldn't just talk the talk but walk the walk" :unsure:
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
All well here bro.
On our way back from a cruise to the Norwegian Fjords.

Tor and I celebrating our 25th Wedding Anniversary.

It's 8 here as I post.

We have had an amazing time.
Seen the beautiful creation of God.
Cruising in the Fjords.
Excuse the pun but it really does float my boat.

I could sit and watch the ocean all day.
When I do I am always reminded of Job 38-42.

It does my heart good, it humbles me.

How is my bro doing?
Doing well.......nice cool day today, took it fairly easy today.....rode the 4 wheeler a bit.....little news....CC.....put some wheat straw around tame black berry plants......haha did start cleaning out my mothers place....little odd.....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I asked dcon and these people replied while dcon sits on his throne. As usual, dcon would not answer questions just like when I asked him about what he can say regarding the body of Christ, but he instead of answering a question went attacking the person. (ad hominem)

Thanks anyway for standing up for what you believe.

. . .



Now you have to bite your TONGUE quite a bit. Dcon travels QUITE a bit, between the USA and Australia, PLUS his mother recently pasted away, and I have been there, there is a LOT of things to do, paper work, as well as sorting through her possessions. It to us 3 weeks, and had to come back later to paint the house to get ready to sell, when my Mom pasted away.

I find you comment Insensitive and down right RUDE. You may have NOTHING ELSE TO DO EXCEPT just camp out here, but others of us have a life to live too.

We absolutely Teach IF YOU LOVE HIM YOU WILL OBEY HIM. It is Part of LOVE, and NOT Salvation.

Salvation is OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT, John 3:6. What some people call salvation of the body, is ACTUALLY SANCTIFICATION.

SALVATION HAPPENS THE MOMENT you genuinely believe. Sanctification takes a Lifetime and will not be completed until the RESURRECTION, when you get the Glorified Body that cannot even think SIN.

Now you can go away.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
113
We absolutely Teach IF YOU LOVE HIM YOU WILL OBEY HIM. It is Part of LOVE, and NOT Salvation.

Salvation is OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT, John 3:6. What some people call salvation of the body, is ACTUALLY SANCTIFICATION.

SALVATION HAPPENS THE MOMENT you genuinely believe. Sanctification takes a Lifetime and will not be completed until the RESURRECTION, when you get the Glorified Body that cannot even think SIN.
Nicely condensed

Why does glorification have to wait?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Nicely condensed

Why does glorification have to wait?
Sanctification definitely does not wait....that is against scripture....we are positionally sanctified in Christ Jesus.

We can live two ways in the flesh or in the Spirit.

Sinning less and less
is the wrong lens.....the right lens is learning to cooperate with God's work in our lives.

Looking to yourself and measuring your progress is wrong...soon as you do this you step back into the flesh away from Jesus....Jesus is Perfect and Holy.....we are not required to activate our flesh, again we are to be open to God working within us to manifest the positional sanctification given to us by Jesus through His Holy Spirit.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,023
4,444
113
Sanctification definitely does not wait....that is against scripture....we are positionally sanctified in Christ Jesus.

We can live two ways in the flesh or in the Spirit.

Sinning less and less is the wrong lens.....the right lens is learning to cooperate with God's work in our lives.

Looking to yourself and measuring your progress is wrong...soon as you do this you step back into the flesh away from Jesus....Jesus is Perfect and Holy.....we are not required to activate our flesh, again we are to be open to God working within us to manifest the positional sanctification given to us by Jesus through His Holy Spirit.
I agree with what you say.

Yet I'm confused with "We are not required to activate our flesh"

Can you explain it to this dummy please