Does salvation require repentance and perseverance?

They should have trusted in Jesus Christ alone for salvation instead of trusting in their works for salvation. For those who truly BELIEVE, shall not. In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.


John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people in Matthew 7:22 were not true converts.

Salvation can not be payed for.

If you could pay for it, or get it by your works. You do not need saved.

The reason you need saved, is because your situation is hopeless.

If people do not come to this realization. They will never trust in Christi. They will continue to trust in their works. And trying to earn or maintain something they could never earn in the first place.

I was asking MailManDan. But? You can answer the question also. Could you be more specific as to what "works" is? As faith WITHOUT "works?" Is DEAD! So, please declare as to what "works" one shouldn't engage in?
Be specific PLEASE!

Who said anything about people not engaging in works.

Do you listen? I never said we should not be doing any works now did I?

Why is it you people always ASSUME we think we shoudl not be engaging in any works? Is it that hard for you to comprehend what people are saying?

NayborBear,
I have always gravitated to these verses in John when the question arises as to the definition of works, and it’s most vital meaning;

27Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on Him God the Father has placed His seal of approval.” 28Then they inquired,“What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”…

You also were not very sepecific in what "works", one should engage in, as opposed to what "works" one shouldn't engage in either!
Fact? You weren't specific a-tall, a-tall!

Shouting accusations and blowing gaskets "becomes" you EG!

Actually, it doesn't! But? It makes for a nice "flare for the dramatic!"

NayborBear,
I have always gravitated to these verses in John when the question arises as to the definition of works, and it’s most vital meaning;

27Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on Him God the Father has placed His seal of approval.” 28Then they inquired,“What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”…

Dude,

Your the one accusing not me, so get off your high horse


I NEVER SAID ONE SHOULD NOT ENGAGE IN WORKS. Those are YOUR WORDS NOT MINE.

My conversation was based on the MOTIVATION of works (why people do them) Not that one should not engage in works or not do certain works.

If your going to lie and be dishonest about what people are syaing, You hurt your own case dude.

So you have a choice. Respond and question me based on what I SAID

Or continue to try to TWIST what I said and continue to make yourself look like your trying to hide something.

The choice is yours.

Always the "straw man" with you ain't it, EG?

To be honest? You answered my question I was asking MailManDan. But you probably can't see it.

John 3
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

So by these words of Jesus

What works are required to

1. Be saved
2. Maintain our salvation or keep us from losing it?

So by these words of Jesus

What works are required to

1. Be saved
2. Maintain our salvation or keep us from losing it?

“The” work of God is this....... The word The is emphatic, meaning it is the uttermost work, of preeminence. Belief or trust is a non meritorious path to salvation. The “object” (The Christ) of our faith determines our fate. If we are incapable by our own effort to work out our initial forgiveness of sin, what makes one think they can then maintain, with further human effort, the gift bestowed upon them?

So then;
Titus 3:5
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

I think too many Christians confuse works with salvation, instead of rewards.

“The” work of God is this....... The word The is emphatic, meaning it is the uttermost work, of preeminence. Belief or trust is a non meritorious path to salvation. The “object” (The Christ) of our faith determines our fate. If we are incapable by our own effort to work out our initial forgiveness of sin, what makes one think they can then maintain, with further human effort, the gift bestowed upon them?

So then;
Titus 3:5
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

I think too many Christians confuse works with salvation, instead of rewards.

Those types always do man! They believe that being saved gives them a "front row seat" in heaven, so to speak. Not that being saved is bad! Indeed NOT! It's AWESOME! Some peoples faith cannot handle inheriting all the Kingdom has, and is! And? That's OK with me! Others? Are not so ok with it, and see these "works" as working for, or maintaining one's salvation! And? Are therefore WRONG! Wrong in talking like that? And wrong for teaching like that.

And, it's what I've been saying for lo onto 4 years in the BDF now .

Some people don't know what they don't know? And, some people know they don't wanna know! AND? Go to some pretty accusative extremes trying to ensure that people that don't know, what they don't know? Don't NEED to know. And, be just like them!

Well? Homey don't play dat game! Been dare on dat stoney ground! And dat? Ain't nowhere man! And nowhere one wants to be on that great and terrible "Day of the Lord!" You can "bet the farm" on it!

2 Peter 1 answers how not to fall. Folks can sing OSAS all they want but there’s too much contradiction. That passage obviously answers whether a Christian can fall by providing the way to avoid falling.

Yep

So you and people like you will continue to preach works as a means to in the end earn your place on the right side on that great and terrible day of the lord,

The only problem is, Your works will not pay for one sin,

Jesus gave you the warning, sayin on that day people will praise all their hard works they did in jesus name and use all these many great deeds as the reason God shoudl let them in, And jesus will just say depart He never knew them.

One must remember, according to the law Even paul admitted he was blameless. There was not a soul in his day who could look at him and use the law to show him being an evil sinner, He was a righteous man,

Sadly, it was self righteousness, Because it was religion. Not the type of work he did AFTER he came to christ, Where his goal was loving and serving others. And not for serving self.

Paul called himself the chief of all sinners. When according to the world. He grew up a righteous person who spent his whole life doing the work of God (so he thought)

Don’t think because people are religious and do all these great works of the church are saved just because they do them Satan has perverted the church just like he did the jews Adding works righteousness to the gospel. Making them really no different than pharisees. People who think they are doing Gods will. And are probably very morally upright people who do alot of great works, but are just as lost as the rapist and murderer.

As I said earlier (which you have still failed to properly respond to)

It is not the works which matter, it is the motivation behind the works.

I suppose I should ask your forgiveness, in saying things your faith cannot bare. But? That ain't gonna happen.
I "get", the fact that you don't "get it!" Because, in your eyes? You already have it! The traditions of man, is what prevents you from "getting it." I can't MAKE you, or anyone else "get it!" That's between you and God! I can only testify that there is so much more then is being taught. In "churches of stone", as well, as here in the BDF.
Because, you see? It requires EFFORTS in removing the blinders, traditions of man make the "Word of God", flow in and through one that believes. This happens, or should occur in ALL the "fruit of the Spirit!" And not be "confined" (God in a box) to just one fruit. Namely, love! This "practice" of doing this? Is one is "RELYING ON the Grace of God," (IOW, TESTING God! Just as the nation of Israel did. some unkowingly? Some WILLINGLY ignorant of). Whilst the rest of the "fruit of the Spirit", that is (also) striving in baring "good" fruit within the believer, keeps getting the "run around/work around", while the believer keeps right on letting it "rot" on the vine, so to speak.
To the point, that many believers see Christ as "standing in the Temple AS God!" Although, God thought it NOT ROBBERY, that the Lamb slain, be CALLED God? Christ, by ALL his work and sacrifice? Is NOT, nor ever WILL be? His own Father!

So, what you call "works", in gaining, or maintaining one's salvation? I "see" as those children of Israel, when God was "trying/testing" THEIR faith? In saying: "God has BROUGHT us out here TO DIE!!" "Let's go BACK to "Pharoah's" grace!"