Not By Works

Here is where our sin nature goes bye, bye; and we become perfect.

1 Corinthians 15:36-38 (HCSB)
36 Foolish one! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
37 And as for what you sow—you are not sowing the future body, but only a seed, perhaps of wheat or another grain.
38 But God gives it a body as He wants, and to each of the seeds its own body.

1 Corinthians 15:40 (HCSB)
40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is different from that of the earthly ones.

1 Corinthians 15:42-49 (HCSB)
42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead: Sown in corruption, raised in incorruption;
43 sown in dishonor, raised in glory; sown in weakness, raised in power;
44 sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, then the spiritual.
47 The first man was from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven.
48 Like the man made of dust, so are those who are made of dust; like the heavenly man, so are those who are heavenly.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the man made of dust, we will also bear the image of the heavenly man.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (HCSB)
51 Listen! I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
53 For this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal must be clothed with immortality.
54 When this corruptible is clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal is clothed with immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: Death has been swallowed up in victory.


WE WILL NOT BE PERFECT, UNTIL THE RESURRECTION.

Here is where our sin nature goes bye, bye; and we become perfect.

1 Corinthians 15:36-38 (HCSB)
36 Foolish one! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
37 And as for what you sow—you are not sowing the future body, but only a seed, perhaps of wheat or another grain.
38 But God gives it a body as He wants, and to each of the seeds its own body.

1 Corinthians 15:40 (HCSB)
40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is different from that of the earthly ones.

1 Corinthians 15:42-49 (HCSB)
42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead: Sown in corruption, raised in incorruption;
43 sown in dishonor, raised in glory; sown in weakness, raised in power;
44 sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, then the spiritual.
47 The first man was from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven.
48 Like the man made of dust, so are those who are made of dust; like the heavenly man, so are those who are heavenly.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the man made of dust, we will also bear the image of the heavenly man.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (HCSB)
51 Listen! I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
53 For this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal must be clothed with immortality.
54 When this corruptible is clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal is clothed with immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: Death has been swallowed up in victory.


WE WILL NOT BE PERFECT, UNTIL THE RESURRECTION.

Salvation by grace through faith is a ONE off eternal event with present continuing results.....funny how some like Seohce, Peter and others cannot grasp this simple truth....it is a STAND ALONE event and is not subject to anything other than initial saving faith which Christ GIVES---->starts, finishes and completes............

I only know that every time I say anything about the part of your quote I put in red, someone accuses me of not believing in justification and salvation by faith alone, (which I believe heartily)

Regenerated through faith
.Justified through faith
sanctified throug faith
Kept by the power of God through faith

Notice, none of these things is accomplished by faith. They are all accomplished by the power of God THROUGH FAITH

Like I said before, we are not saved by works, but the works that God has done and does on our behalf save us.

what decon said is true, and it's good to see you agree with it. but, it all goes together, so maybe be careful about pounding individual points, that is where at times you come across as not agreeing ....

What Dcon said is exactly the SAME THING I've been saying. Go back and read the posts of mine that you took issue with in light of the statement "salvation is a one time eternal event with continuing results". Everything I have said agrees with that.

The problem has not been what I said. It has been the way you have interpreted it. Because you assumed from the beginning that I did not believe in the security of the believer, and you were mistaken in that. You interpreted my statement through the lens of what you wrongly perceived me to be.

fair enough. we will see how it goes.

Yeah, sure. Carry on with your looking for evidence that I believe what I don't believe.

Salvation has to do with SAVING and BRINGING TO ETERNAL LIFE the Human Spirit, happens in an instant.

Sanctification, has to with conforming the Human Body, to be like the Born Again Human Spirit, and takes a life time.

If this is true then Jesus was not really saying the truth when He told the church in Sardis that He has found their deeds not complete in the sight of God and that they need to remember what they have heard and received, to obey it and repent? If you consider them as saved for believing what they have heard and received the very moment they believed, why would Jesus require them to obey and repent or else He will come like a thief? If they were saved yet reject Jesus what Jesus told them to do and death overtakes them, will they still remain saved?

There are people on CC who says that their sins in the past, present and future were all forgiven and they therefore do not need to ask forgiveness and repent. Some say that lying to the Holy Spirit is Ok, that blasphemy to the Holy Spirit is no longer unforgivable while some boldly declare that they are sinners who will keep sinning until they die but will still be saved. Some say that Matthew 28:19-20 does not apply to NT Christians but only for the Jews. They say that obedience to God has no bearing in salvation. Aren't these contrary to what you say that they obey because they were saved as they claim?

NIV1984 Isaiah 5:20-21
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight.

NIV1984 Jude 1:4
For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

NIV1984 1 Timothy 6:3-5
If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD.

Salvation - saving - bringing to eternal life.

11 And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber,
because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.
Rom 13

Salvation can be used to mean entering heaven.

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him
Heb 9

24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
John 5

We are saved, because we dwell with Christ, filled with the Holy Spirit, redeemed, cleansed, purified, made whole,
taken from death to life. A reality of heaven come down to earth. To those who stay here, heaven is assured, it burns
eternally and will never fail. But the reason why is because this is the Kingdom, heaven is the passing of this mortal
existence, into the immortal reality of our new existence with Him.

But what of those, who never achieve maturity or find freedom from besetting sin, or the struggles of life, or the wounds
and troubles of the heart? If they stay true to Jesus in faith, they are secure.

I have found no security for those who live as reprobates or have given up the faith. If one dilutes the essential nature
of boundaries of behaviour, the power of love over evil, the nature of God in our hearts, and say touching life is enough,
one has given up on the realities of what love is, and what the cross means. I say this as an encouragement to Gods people,
because reprobates will always abide in sin and argue that is acceptable to God.

The more I read scripture, two verses jump out, time and again, reinforcing the message of our walk, of our victory, of
the Holy Spirit empowering His people to overcome. The path is one of discovery, effort, investment, searching, faith, risk,
sacrifice. Only at the end will we truly discover who is true and who was false, but that matters less, than meeting Jesus,
our glorious King and Lord. Amen

how can you know that you are free from sin when you do not even use the actual Biblical definition of sin to determine if you do so or not?

AMEN and I agree for sure.........there have been many that have come on line with the truth due to the incessant Stand some of us have made in this thread......

No doubt we will not be perfect until Christ comes. But a person who has the hope of the resurrection purifies himself (progressive and ongoing) as He is Pure (1 John 3:3) and is called to clea


No doubt we will not be perfect until the resurrection. But everyone who has the hope of Christ's return and of the resurrection is purifying himself or herself, not to be saved, but because they are saved (descriptive language, not prescriptive, 1 John 3:3)

NIV1984 Romans 15:14-18
Paul the Minister to the Gentiles I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, complete in knowledge and competent to instruct one another. I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—

Then Paul said,

NIV1984 Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him,

Paul suffered for Christ as He follows His example.

NIV1984 1 Corinthians 11:1
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

And just as it is written, Jesus learned OBEDIENCE from what He suffered.

NIV1984 Hebrews 5:8-9
Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.

It is therefore clear that Jesus is the source of salvation for those who obey Him because it is NOT BY FAITH ALONE and FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.(James 2:14-26)

NIV1984 James 2:24,26
You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE... As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.

NIV1984 Revelation 3:1-3
...I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

So do not let anyone DECEIVE you. No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD.

NIV1984 2 Corinthians 11:3
But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

NIV1984 Jude 1:4
For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

If one holds faith in Jesus yet is a slave to sin and a pattern of life that does not testify to
the Holy Spirit in ones heart, what is one?

Not saved. This is not said as condemnation, but just as a reality. It does not mean you
cannot find the reality in Jesus, it means you need to search for it deeper.

A hard heart always hides from itself that it is hard. We only know how hard we are, when
we know we should respond, we are cut off from that response, as if it should appear.
There are testimonies of so many who know the idea of Jesus, yet He has never connected.

Jesus took me as a teenager, and over time showed me how constrained and filtered I was.
He then demonstrated His love. It blew me away. It was on a scale I cannot compare.
His knowledge of lostness, motivations, protection, status, possession, importance was something
I could only just grasp. I was alone, lost, without a foundation, wondering where to go.

But then I knew I had to step out and put my faith in him. Now I had done evangelism, talked at
length about Jesus, religion, ideas, faith. But something changed, deeper than ever before. It is
a walk, a learning, a growth, something profound, so deep it never leaves one.

Peter knew Jesus yet denied Him. Our walk is full of different realities, tests, refining, Many a
saint has been challenged to just witness even if they die. Praise God they walk through and into
His arms. Jesus is eternal, His truth will never end. And our hearts calling is to understand and
know Him and His will. And the outflow of this, is obeying is not a burden, it is our hearts desire.

But until you find this place, it will seem like a dream, but you can find it, if you truly want to.
But it always comes at a price, and knowing this is part of the walk, another step along the way.
Amen.

12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it.
I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem,
which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.
Rev 3

If one holds faith in Jesus yet is a slave to sin and a pattern of life that does not testify to
the Holy Spirit in ones heart, what is one?

Once the moment of the human spirit is being saved into eternal life, the rest is conforming the physical body into the saved human spirit, is what you are saying