Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

Incorrect opinion and unbelief ...
But Jesus did teach that speaking in a new tongue would be the sign of true discipleship via the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Now that really is the kettle calling the pot black!
Brother take the stone of hypocrisy out of your heart before you accuse others of your own sin.

Jesus taught that speaking in tongues would be a SIGN (evidence indicating) the true full gospel of repentance followed by
water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit : believers shall speak in new tongues.
Paul is writing about one of three voice GIFTS that should be operated in the Spirit-filled church.
Diversity of tongues is a gift dispersed in the church to be used at a church meeting then followed by interpretation.[/please

Scripture please😊
So, the corinthian church was a spirit filled church? What you understand about spirit filled?
Where it is written, that a believer was taught that speaking in tongues is the proof to be baptised with the Holy Spirit?

Now that really is the kettle calling the pot black!
Brother take the stone of hypocrisy out of your heart before you accuse others of your own sin.

Jesus taught that speaking in tongues would be a SIGN (evidence indicating) the true full gospel of repentance followed by
water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit : believers shall speak in new tongues.
Paul is writing about one of three voice GIFTS that should be operated in the Spirit-filled church.
Diversity of tongues is a gift dispersed in the church to be used at a church meeting then followed by interpretation.

You did not make any application to the verses you cited. Sadly much of the Pentecostal teaching on tongues requires only vague and obtuse references to verses that really in context and upon close examination do not convey the message attributed to them.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The bible states that one can know when something is true when a concept occurs and is recorded/witnessed 2-3 times. (Matt 18:16) The baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of tongues is recorded at least 3 times. (Acts 2:1-4, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) After Peter himself was filled with the Holy Ghost he gave instructions to be followed in order for one to be saved.
Acts 2:38-40
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized (water baptism) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Holy Ghost baptism)
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (God is still calling people)
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Acts 10:43-48
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall (future tense) receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, (Holy Ghost baptism) and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized (water baptism) in the name of the Lord.

Acts 11:13-14 (Peter's comment to the Jewish leaders)
Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 19:4-6
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, (Holy Ghost baptism) and prophesied.

As seen in the Book of Acts where the birth of the NT church is recorded, both Peter and Paul instructed individuals to follow specific instructions. Throughout history the church has and should continue to follow these instructions until Jesus returns.

You have just described a gospel which is based on works and not grace. Acts 2 is not about water baptism. Acts 10 is a correct application of water baptism after salvation. Acts 19 is again not about water baptism. What you have done is make the gospel about baptismal regeneration and not about grace. For by grace are you saved and not of works lest any should boast. Eph 2:8-9 Your presentation of the gospel is all about works and boasting about speaking in tongues as evidence. Compare what you believe with Romans 10:9-10. Water does not save nor can water wash away sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You have just described a gospel which is based on works and not grace. Acts 2 is not about water baptism. Acts 10 is a correct application of water baptism after salvation. Acts 19 is again not about water baptism. What you have done is make the gospel about baptismal regeneration and not about grace. For by grace are you saved and not of works lest any should boast. Eph 2:8-9 Your presentation of the gospel is all about works and boasting about speaking in tongues as evidence. Compare what you believe with Romans 10:9-10. Water does not save nor can water wash away sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Actually, baptism (in water, in Jesus name, for remission of sins) is in agreement with Romans 10:9-10. Both are biblical statements and they work together.

But (pretty much in agreement with what you are suggesting) NO, it's not the water that is doing the saving, it's the obedience by faith to what God has set up.

As with Jesus, it wasn't the death that gave him greater life. Death was simply something Jesus had to go through before he could be free of the natural life and go on to the greater life. So it is with baptism. It isn't the water that's doing the work. The water is simply something we need to go through to be free of the natural life (of sin) and go on to the greater life (of spirit). Please consider that the following verse is almost directly stating that concept:

1Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


And baptism isn't a "work" that we do, it is something we submit to in obedience that links us to the same activity in Jesus.

Jesus submitted, through obedience, to death. We submit, through obedience, to baptism.
Jesus went down fully into death. We go down fully into the water.

Jesus went down into death having the burden of sins (humanity's) and rose without that burden. We go down into baptism having the burden of sins (ours) and rise without them.

Jesus rose fully out of death and left the sin behind. We are to rise fully out of baptism and leave the sin behind.

Jesus rose back to 'normal' life with expectation of receiving greater spiritual life (which he received when he ascended).
We rise back to 'normal' life with expectation of greater spiritual life (which we receive when we receive the Holy Ghost)

What I'm simply pointing out is that baptism is our version/likeness/link to Jesus' death, as says Romans 6:3-5 KJV:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" <-- take a few moments to consider what happens if a person is NOT planted together in the likeness of his death.

And consider the aspect of confession with the mouth... That also is not excluded from baptism... it is included as part of the baptism process, as says Acts 22:16 KJV: "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Love in Jesus to All,
Kelby

You have just described a gospel which is based on works and not grace. Acts 2 is not about water baptism. Acts 10 is a correct application of water baptism after salvation. Acts 19 is again not about water baptism. What you have done is make the gospel about baptismal regeneration and not about grace. For by grace are you saved and not of works lest any should boast. Eph 2:8-9 Your presentation of the gospel is all about works and boasting about speaking in tongues as evidence. Compare what you believe with Romans 10:9-10. Water does not save nor can water wash away sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The jailer asked what must I do to be saved? They answered him with believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 16:31 Obedience follows belief. Baptism follows belief. All we do is a result of our salvation not a contributing factor to our redemption.

You frustrate the grace of God when you add to it with the works of man.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Please read Acts 2 and 19 again because both speak of water as well as Holy Ghost baptism.
Also consider that all I provided was scripture. I presented nothing other than the Word of God, evidently you see what those words convey:
Acts 2:38-40
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized (water baptism) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Holy Ghost baptism)
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (God is still calling people)
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Acts 10:43-48
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall (future tense) receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, (Holy Ghost baptism) and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized (water baptism) in the name of the Lord.

Acts 11:13-14 (Peter's comment to the Jewish leaders)
Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 19:4-6
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, (Holy Ghost baptism) and prophesied.

As seen in the Book of Acts where the birth of the NT church is recorded, both Peter and Paul instructed individuals to follow specific instructions. Throughout history the church has and should continue to follow these instructions until Jesus returns.

The bible states that one can know when something is true when a concept occurs and is recorded/witnessed 2-3 times. (Matt 18:16) The baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of tongues is recorded at least 3 times. (Acts 2:1-4, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) After Peter himself was filled with the Holy Ghost he gave instructions to be followed in order for one to be saved.
Acts 2:38-40
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized (water baptism) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Holy Ghost baptism)
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (God is still calling people)
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Acts 10:43-48
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall (future tense) receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, (Holy Ghost baptism) and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized (water baptism) in the name of the Lord.

Acts 11:13-14 (Peter's comment to the Jewish leaders)
Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 19:4-6
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, (Holy Ghost baptism) and prophesied.

As seen in the Book of Acts where the birth of the NT church is recorded, both Peter and Paul instructed individuals to follow specific instructions. Throughout history the church has and should continue to follow these instructions until Jesus returns.

The jailer and his family were baptized upon believing the message of Jesus and His sacrifice. (Acts 16:30-33)

Notice it is not I, but the Word that states that faith without works/deeds is dead:

James 2:19-24
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Baptism by full immersion is a commandment and a sacrament fundamental to Christian conversion and discipleship …
The Baptism of Jesus (ESV)
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him.
14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented.
16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;
17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Matthew 3:
1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Matthew 4:
And so it is today: a person repents and believes the gospel, and like Jesus we are water baptized to fulfill all righteousness, then
we are seek for the baptism Holy Ghost to descend upon and indwell us; we receive the Spirit of adoption and a new prayer language for us to utilize the power of the Spirit in our direct communication to God our Father (who is Spirit) and then we are lead by the
Spirit to overcome the works of the Devil.

15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Mark 16:[/QUOTE

The sign shows someone heard the gospel and believed God. Nothing more and nothing less.

The foundation of the sign of Tongues. God with mocking lips mocking that is against those who refuse to believe God is found in Isiah 28. Did you forget to look .?Or does it destroy the idea of make a noise and it confirms the Holy Spirit is filling a person with something . And for all that you still refuse to believe the scriptures?

Once you figure out what the sign confirms and who it is speaking to then the rest of doctrine fall in place. and not fall backward as those it does describe.
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. Isiah 28

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22

Prove the things used as metaphors listed in Mark 16 or prove they are not metaphors?

I like to start out with the poison of serpents. Have you drank any and it has not harmed you.?

Demons come out when a person hears the gospel .You don't think you could cast out demons any other way... like speaking in tongue while falling back slain in the spirit.

The apostles tried but could not .

You cannot discern between Holy Spirit baptism and water baptism. Water baptism never saves for it cannot. Only grace saves and that is never merited. Saving faith comes through hearing and hearing the word of God. Saving faith is produced by God in the heart of hearers of the word of God as it tells of Christ and His ability to save through His death to atone for sin and His resurrection from the tomb. Romans 10:17

If you place confidence in speaking in tongues as evidence of salvation you have received unsound doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

friends i would like if someone could start a new thread for me. about this topic of baptism (water). i dont know how to host a topic dont know what to say and got nothing to offer

i notice every time its said to be in the name of Jesus in the book of acts, atleast 5 times. and only once its said to be in Father, Son and Holy Spirit name in matthew 28.

why is it like this? all churches use the matthew way, even if its only mentioned once? some say it was changed by catholics and some said that name of Jesus is just a shortened way of saying they were baptized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit like in the early church document instructed called didache

Please point out the discrepancies between water and Holy Ghost baptism you claim I made in the scriptures provided:

Please point out the discrepancies between water and Holy Ghost baptism you claim I made in the scriptures provided:

Acts 2:38-40
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized (water baptism) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Holy Ghost baptism)
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (God is still calling people)
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Acts 10:43-48
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall (future tense) receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, (Holy Ghost baptism) and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized (water baptism) in the name of the Lord.

Acts 11:13-14 (Peter's comment to the Jewish leaders)
Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 19:4-6
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, (Holy Ghost baptism) and prophesied.