Been watching a lot about the quran.. Misled?

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newton3003

Senior Member
#41
Feb 4, 2017
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#41
Sophrosyne said:
im so confused. Please reply..
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The confusion to me is what is in the Quran and how some people view it.

The Quran regards Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Jesus as being among the ranks of the righteous. The Quran mentions Jesus more than it mentions the prophet Mohammed. Yet many so-called Musims have waged a holy war against Christians, and still are, and many countries with Muslim majorities persecute Christians.

That is MY confusion.
 
WalkingTree

WalkingTree

Active member
#42
Jan 13, 2019
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#42
newton3003 said:
The confusion to me is what is in the Quran and how some people view it.

The Quran regards Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Jesus as being among the ranks of the righteous. The Quran mentions Jesus more than it mentions the prophet Mohammed. Yet many so-called Musims have waged a holy war against Christians, and still are, and many countries with Muslim majorities persecute Christians.

That is MY confusion.
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Read the Hadith, the second most holy book in Islam and you will find your answer. The Quran is a book of generalities, which is why the Muslim can present the appearance of peacefulness. It's only when you read their prophets writings attached to the Quran that you can see the real heart of hatred within Islam.

It's the commands of Mohamad that you need to read because it's there where you can find the instructions for lying to then killing any non believers (kafirs). = jihad

Islam is much more a political ideology than a religion. It employs the later to further the former.
 
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newton3003

Senior Member
#43
Feb 4, 2017
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#43
WalkingTree said:
Read the Hadith, the second most holy book in Islam and you will find your answer. The Quran is a book of generalities, which is why the Muslim can present the appearance of peacefulness. It's only when you read their prophets writings attached to the Quran that you can see the real heart of hatred within Islam.

It's the commands of Mohamad that you need to read because it's there where you can find the instructions for lying to then killing any non believers (kafirs). = jihad
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If that's the case, then every Muslim is a potential killer that should be contained.

But, I have Muslim friends and none of them even speak vaguely about non-believers, and I'm not a Muslim.

The Bible can also be construed as a primer for killing non-believers, as Moses and Joshua did in the Old Testament.
 
WalkingTree

WalkingTree

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Jan 13, 2019
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#44
newton3003 said:
If that's the case, then every Muslim is a potential killer that should be contained.

But, I have Muslim friends and none of them even speak vaguely about non-believers, and I'm not a Muslim.

The Bible can also be construed as a primer for killing non-believers, as Moses and Joshua did in the Old Testament.
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Your problem would be that the bible does not actively command to kill anyone in today's world for the submission of the gospel. Your Muslim friends probably identify as 'moderate', and they too will find no different fate for themselves than the kafir. Muslim's who follow the teachings of Mohamed will see them as apostate as a Jew or a Christian.

It appears to me you have not read the hadith to fully understand how one submits to Islam. It makes no difference to their prophet if they identify as Muslim, if they reject his teachings they will suffer the same fate as all kafirs. There is no peaceful Islam, only a continual push to submit to it. = jihad.

IF those American Muslims were to live under sharia law they would definitely be speaking of and acting on the Hadith of Mohamed. Are you familiar with Sharia law? You should be, it's being injected into US politics (jihad).
 
WalkingTree

WalkingTree

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#45
Jan 13, 2019
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#45
newton3003 said:
But, I have Muslim friends and none of them even speak vaguely about non-believers, and I'm not a Muslim.
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You seem to think that good Muslims are a proof of a "good" Islam and that the doctrine makes not difference. Oddly enough, Muslims do not agree with this. Muslims have on and only one definition of what a "good Muslim" is, one who has submitted to Islam and follows the Sunna. The cause is Islam: the effect is Muslim. You seem to think that Islam submits to Muslims.

There are three types of Muslims, Meccan (religious), Medinan (political), and the golden rule Muslim. The latter being one who is an apostate in some degree.

A good Muslim is one who seems non-violent, but that is not the viewpoint of Islam. How much a Muslim follow Islam (the teachings of Mohamed(the hadith)) determines how 'good' he is, according to Islam.
 
FollowHisSteps

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
#46
Feb 15, 2019
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#46
WalkingTree said:
Your problem would be that the bible does not actively command to kill anyone in today's world for the submission of the gospel. Your Muslim friends probably identify as 'moderate', and they too will find no different fate for themselves than the kafir. Muslim's who follow the teachings of Mohamed will see them as apostate as a Jew or a Christian.

It appears to me you have not read the hadith to fully understand how one submits to Islam. It makes no difference to their prophet if they identify as Muslim, if they reject his teachings they will suffer the same fate as all kafirs. There is no peaceful Islam, only a continual push to submit to it. = jihad.

IF those American Muslims were to live under sharia law they would definitely be speaking of and acting on the Hadith of Mohamed. Are you familiar with Sharia law? You should be, it's being injected into US politics (jihad).
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I agree with you. People have no concept of how dictatorial the Koran is regarding Sharia.
God commands obedience or death. The closer you look the more the obligation bites.
In essence it is not limited to outcomes, it is pure "here it the law", obey.
And their is no critical spirit allowed, or criticism, only submission. It is why this philosphy ends
up with a man feeling another has insulted Islam, so they can murder them, and no one will touch them.
So any pyschopath can take over, any manupulator and rule in chaos, and good people who desire
justice get trampled on. It is why reformers have a hard time, because they have to smooth out this
violence and bring more social balance and sense of real life, and almost create a social faith, that
loves and cares for people irrespective of these extremes.

This total anti-social view in Islam, for me makes Islam irrelevant. Talk to the social realities, and then
implement love and care, and work from there. Early Mohammed did say some good things, but
Jesus is far better. Once you see how crazy Mohammed became, it all falls apart. One simple example
is marrying Aisha aged 6 years old when Mohammed was 50. Nothing good comes from this.
 
WalkingTree

WalkingTree

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Jan 13, 2019
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#47
newton3003 said:
The Bible can also be construed as a primer for killing non-believers, as Moses and Joshua did in the Old Testament.
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So you want me to believe that Christianity and Judaism are no better or worse than Islam? There is only one way to prove or disprove the comparison: measure the difference in violence.

The only violence that matters to someone outside either Islam or Judaism is what they do to the "other" , or political violence. Cain killing Able is not political violence. Political violence is not killing a lamb for a meal or making an animal sacrifice.

When you compare the doctrines both quantitatively and qualitatively it turns out that jihad occurs in large propotion in all three texts within Islam (Hadith, Sira, Koran). Basically, when Mohamed was a preacher of religion, Islam grew at the rate of 10 new Muslims per year. But when he turned to jihad, Islam grew at an average rate of 10,000 per year.

Compared to the Jewish Bible, when all of the political violence is counted we find that 5.6% of the text is devoted to political violence as opposed to 31% of the Islamic trilogy.

When we count the magnitude of words devoted to political violence we have 327,547 words in the trilogy and 34,039 words in the Jewish bible. The trilogy (Islam) has 9.6 times as much wordage devoted to political violence as the Jewish bible.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#48
Dec 12, 2013
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#48
stonesoffire said:
I think he means through Ishmael.
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Does not matter....it does not come from Ishmael either........it came from Muhammad.......He worshiped the Moon god SIN and then changed the name of that false god to Allah, and then forced the worship of that false god as god........

Muhammad was the founder of Islam and the proclaimer of the Qurʾān, Islam's sacred scripture. He spent his entire life in what is now the country of Saudi Arabia, from his birth about 570 CE in Mecca to his death in 632 in Medina.
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
#49
#49
dcontroversal said:
The Muslim faith does not stem from Abraham....that is one of the most ignorant statements I have seen on this site............
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What you think vs fact are very far apart...

Abraham, not only had a son named Ishmael (that God said He would make into his own nation), but AFTER Sarah died, he remarried a woman FROM WHERE ABRAHAM was originally born (WHICH IS MUSLIM TERRITORY OF IRAN/IRAQ). Her name was Keturah.

1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.

2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.

4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.

EVERY ONE OF ABRAHAM'S SONS NAMES FROM KETURAH ARE THE NAMES OF MOUNTAIN RANGES THROUGHOUT MUSLIM TERRITORY!!


ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE LISTED IN VERSES 2 - 4 + ISHMAEL are Muslims who Abraham TAUGHT concerning God!!
And we ALREADY KNOW that God made Ishmael a great nation (the Muslim nation).

So, the Muslim nation, which COMES FROM ISHMAEL and from Abraham's children from Keturah, was a nation WHO BELIEVED IN THE GOD OF ABRAHAM!!

From Abraham, both the Hebrew people and Muslim people were created!! And from Abraham, both the Hebrew people and Muslim people FOLLOWED THE GOD OF ABRAHAM!!


Whether you like it or not, YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN!!



Answer just ONE QUESTION:
Do you think Abraham taught Ishmael and his children from Keturah about Yahweh?


The Hebrew word יהוה = YAHWEH = the Muslim word يهوه = JEHOVA

The Hebrew translated word YAHWEH = the Muslim word الرب = the Lord, God

The Muslim word from the Hebrew الرب ، الله WHICH HAS YAHWEH, THE LORD GOD IN IT = Alrab , Allah

The Muslim word with Hebrew YAHWEH in it الراب والله = Alrab , Allah = the Hebrew word ראפ, אלוהים = THE LORD, GOD


ALLAH actually means = Yahweh, which means = the Lord God
Making Allah = the Lord, God from the Hebrew language taught to them by ABRAHAM!!



Don't argue with me, when it's obvious you aren't grasping the truth!!
My guess, that is a hillbilly (which I am a HILLBILLY REDNECK INBRED and know how my kin and others like me THINK) prejudice view towards people you despise and deep down HATE!!
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
#50
#50
dcontroversal said:
Does not matter....it does not come from Ishmael either........it came from Muhammad.......He worshiped the Moon god SIN and then changed the name of that false god to Allah, and then forced the worship of that false god as god........

Muhammad was the founder of Islam and the proclaimer of the Qurʾān, Islam's sacred scripture. He spent his entire life in what is now the country of Saudi Arabia, from his birth about 570 CE in Mecca to his death in 632 in Medina.
Click to expand...


WOW, you really don't have a CLUE!!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#51
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#51
obedienttogod said:
What you think vs fact are very far apart...

Abraham, not only had a son named Ishmael (that God said He would make into his own nation), but AFTER Sarah died, he remarried a woman FROM WHERE ABRAHAM was originally born (WHICH IS MUSLIM TERRITORY OF IRAN/IRAQ). Her name was Keturah.

1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.

2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.

4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.

EVERY ONE OF ABRAHAM'S SONS NAMES FROM KETURAH ARE THE NAMES OF MOUNTAIN RANGES THROUGHOUT MUSLIM TERRITORY!!


ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE LISTED IN VERSES 2 - 4 + ISHMAEL are Muslims who Abraham TAUGHT concerning God!!
And we ALREADY KNOW that God made Ishmael a great nation (the Muslim nation).

So, the Muslim nation, which COMES FROM ISHMAEL and from Abraham's children from Keturah, was a nation WHO BELIEVED IN THE GOD OF ABRAHAM!!

From Abraham, both the Hebrew people and Muslim people were created!! And from Abraham, both the Hebrew people and Muslim people FOLLOWED THE GOD OF ABRAHAM!!


Whether you like it or not, YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN!!



Answer just ONE QUESTION:
Do you think Abraham taught Ishmael and his children from Keturah about Yahweh?


The Hebrew word יהוה = YAHWEH = the Muslim word يهوه = JEHOVA

The Hebrew translated word YAHWEH = the Muslim word الرب = the Lord, God

The Muslim word from the Hebrew الرب ، الله WHICH HAS YAHWEH, THE LORD GOD IN IT = Alrab , Allah

The Muslim word with Hebrew YAHWEH in it الراب والله = Alrab , Allah = the Hebrew word ראפ, אלוהים = THE LORD, GOD


ALLAH actually means = Yahweh, which means = the Lord God
Making Allah = the Lord, God from the Hebrew language taught to them by ABRAHAM!!



Don't argue with me, when it's obvious you aren't grasping the truth!!
My guess, that is a hillbilly (which I am a HILLBILLY REDNECK INBRED and know how my kin and others like me THINK) prejudice view towards people you despise and deep down HATE!!
Click to expand...
False.....Get your facts straight pal....ISLAM came from the following....NOT ABRAHAM or even Ishmael...and i thought your first quote was ignorant.....the above takes the cake......especially the part about the four plus Ishmael are Muslims.....HAHAHHAHA WOW man...

Muhammad was the founder of Islam and the proclaimer of the Qurʾān, Islam's sacred scripture. He spent his entire life in what is now the country of Saudi Arabia, from his birth about 570 CE in Mecca to his death in 632 in Medina.
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
#53
#53
How did Islam begin?
Islam is a monotheistic faith centered around belief in the one God (Allah). In this regard, it shares some beliefs with Judaism and Christianity by tracing its history back to the patriarch Abraham, and ultimately to the first prophet, Adam.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#54
Mar 28, 2019
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#54
dcontroversal said:
Try again and Look in the mirror when you say the above drivel.....
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i agree. completely false, defending a false religion how evil......

now we know not to listen to "obedienttogod" since he is by his own words an inbred hillbilly redneck lolz
obedienttogod said:
(which I am a HILLBILLY REDNECK INBRED
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what does he know? nothing but slander.
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
#55
#55
Melach said:
i agree. completely false, defending a false religion how evil......

now we know not to listen to "obedienttogod" since he is by his own words an inbred hillbilly redneck lolz


what does he know? nothing but slander.
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How am I defending, Islam, by correcting a view as ignorant as those following Calvin?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#56
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#56
Melach said:
i agree. completely false, defending a false religion how evil......

now we know not to listen to "obedienttogod" since he is by his own words an inbred hillbilly redneck lolz


what does he know? nothing but slander.
Click to expand...
I studied church history and cults for 4 semesters in Seminary.....and I can tell you the religion known as ISLAM was started by Muhammad......They tie it to Abraham dia Ishmael because from Ishmael came 12 sons that would become the Arabs......sure the name Allah is generic for GOD and Islam means "submission to the will of god"......almost ALL honest scholars date it's founding to the 7th century in Mecca Saudi Arabia.......and an even deeper study reveals that it is just an older false god renamed and repackaged by Muhammad.......and a study of the historicity of the false gods worshiped in Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome will reveal that they are ALL one and the same false god, that being SATAN repackaged and renamed throughout history......for example.....Horus is Bel is Marduke is Merodach is Jupiter is Zeus is Allah is Satan........I fully expect him to reject this truth!!

To say it is tied to Abraham or even Ishmael goes beyond the words I can use on this site to accurately describe that view......
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
#58
#58
dcontroversal said:
I studied church history and cults for 4 semesters in Seminary.....and I can tell you the religion known as ISLAM was started by Muhammad......They tie it to Abraham dia Ishmael because from Ishmael came 12 sons that would become the Arabs......sure the name Allah is generic for GOD and Islam means "submission to the will of god"......almost ALL honest scholars date it's founding to the 7th century in Mecca Saudi Arabia.......and an even deeper study reveals that it is just an older false god renamed and repackaged by Muhammad.......and a study of the historicity of the false gods worshiped in Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome will reveal that they are ALL one and the same false god, that being SATAN repackaged and renamed throughout history......for example.....Horus is Bel is Marduke is Merodach is Jupiter is Zeus is Allah is Satan........I fully expect him to reject this truth!!

To say it is tied to Abraham or even Ishmael goes beyond the words I can use on this site to accurately describe that view......
Click to expand...


Your BAPTIST PROFESSORS are also BIASED!!
Just like the BAPTIST debate between Calvinism and Amills.

And the Greek name ZEUS is where Jesus comes from and why I use the correct NAME, Yeshua!!

Cracks me up, people take Allah to ZEUS but disregard that is where the NAME JESUS also COMES FROM!!


Does Jesus mean Hail Zeus? | That Ancient Faith
https://www.thatancientfaith.uk › Articles › Apologetics › Etymology
  1. From Greek Διος (Dios) meaning "of ZEUS" combined with NYSA, means the Greek name Jesus...


This is ZEUS + NYSA = JESUS


So, when you are saying, JESUS, you are FACTUALLY saying HAIL ZEUS!!



If you took Seminary, this would have been there. but I see YOU FAIL to mention the OBVIOUS!!
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#59
Nov 24, 2013
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#59
shmael (Arabic: إسماعيل‎, Ismā'īl) is the figure known in Judaism, Christianity, andIslam as Abraham's (Ibrahim) son, born to Hagar (Hajar). In Islam, Ishmael is regarded as a prophet (nabi) and an ancestor to Muhammad. He also became associated with Mecca and the construction of the Kaaba.
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
#60
#60
obedienttogod said:
Your BAPTIST PROFESSORS are also BIASED!!
Just like the BAPTIST debate between Calvinism and Amills.

And the Greek name ZEUS is where Jesus comes from and why I use the correct NAME, Yeshua!!

Cracks me up, people take Allah to ZEUS but disregard that is where the NAME JESUS also COMES FROM!!


Does Jesus mean Hail Zeus? | That Ancient Faith
https://www.thatancientfaith.uk › Articles › Apologetics › Etymology
  1. From Greek Διος (Dios) meaning "of ZEUS" combined with NYSA, means the Greek name Jesus...


This is ZEUS + NYSA = JESUS


So, when you are saying, JESUS, you are FACTUALLY saying HAIL ZEUS!!



If you took Seminary, this would have been there. but I see YOU FAIL to mention the OBVIOUS!!
Click to expand...


IF YOU ACTUALLY TOOK SEMINARY, which I am struggling TO BELIEVE!!

The Hebrew word יהוה = YAHWEH = the Muslim word يهوه = JEHOVA

The Hebrew translated word YAHWEH = the Muslim word الرب = the Lord, God

The Muslim word from the Hebrew الرب ، الله WHICH HAS YAHWEH, THE LORD GOD IN IT = Alrab , Allah

The Muslim word with Hebrew YAHWEH in it الراب والله = Alrab , Allah = the Hebrew word ראפ, אלוהים = THE LORD, GOD


ALLAH actually means = Yahweh, which means = the Lord God

This can be found^




And the FACT, you would be IGNORANT ENOUGH to mention Allah (that has no real connection to ZEUS and applied JESUS), it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the answers you are trying to SHOVE in this thread.

Because as of this MOMENT, you are proving that you are either LYING or just CLUELESS!!
 
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