What is falling away as mentioned in Hebrews 6?

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NayborBear

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#161
Dec 6, 2015
2,626
775
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A deplorable! (so you know, what "state" I'm in!)
#161
eternally-gratefull said:
If (if it were possible) they fall away It would be impossible to renew them t repentance
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And then, there's this:
Matthew 5
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. :unsure:
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#162
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#162
metanoia said:
Are you calling Jesus a liar when He said: "I am the resurrection and the life; he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live; and whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die." (John 11:25); or "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24); "For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt." (Romans 4:3-4); "For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law but through the righteousness of faith. for if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, because the law brings about wrath; for which there is no law there is no transgression." (Romans 4:13-15) Summary: God's promise is independent of the law and rests squarely on the principle of faith. When God's people look to the law for justification instead of to God, failure to keep the law makes them guilty and they face death instead of life. God's promise of the law is uncertain, whereas His promise of faith is certain. Abraham's "faith" conquered impossibility, improbability, inadequacy, inconsistency, insecurity, and infidelity.
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How can we hear the words of Jesus yet be deaf to the words asking for repentance? Jesus wipes out our sin and we are made righteous and pure, but how we can be made pure one second and live in sin and dirt the next?

Jesus gave us righteousness, jesus paid for our sin and that was based on our faith not on our obedience to law. It was under grace we received this cleanings, but if we are wiped clean but insist on living with the sin and keeping it as part of us, then the cleaning that Jesus gives has no affect. Then God will tell us He does not know us for God cannot live with sin.
 
S

Sipsey

Well-known member
#164
Sep 27, 2018
1,476
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#164
I’m fascinated that how so many Bible readers can read one or two verses that “seem” to contradict dozens of other verses, and rely on the “few” verses for their doctrines; simply fascinating!
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#165
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#165
Sipsey said:
I’m fascinated that how so many Bible readers can read one or two verses that “seem” to contradict dozens of other verses, and rely on the “few” verses for their doctrines; simply fascinating!
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I see such truth in this. It seems that instead of learning about the God who created us and is in control of our life they decide how they would like Him to be and read into scripture ideas that prove those ideas correct. God's way of giving us a unified whole with each piece fitting perfectly into every other piece seems to have escaped their understanding. Every scripture verse has other verses that relates to it, if it doesn't there is something wrong with the interpretation.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#166
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#166
Dino246 said:
That isn't in Scripture.
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Isaiah 59:2 Butyour iniquities have built barriers between you and your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear.

Sin Separates Us from God
1Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor His ear too dull to hear. 2Butyour iniquities have built barriers between you and your God, and your sins have hiddenHis face from you, so that He will not hear.

Psalm 5: 4For You are not a God who delights in wickedness; no evil can dwell with You. 5The boastful cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all workers of iniquity.…
 
M

metanoia

Member
#167
Mar 29, 2019
40
16
8
#167
Blik said:
How can we hear the words of Jesus yet be deaf to the words asking for repentance? Jesus wipes out our sin and we are made righteous and pure, but how we can be made pure one second and live in sin and dirt the next?

Jesus gave us righteousness, jesus paid for our sin and that was based on our faith not on our obedience to law. It was under grace we received this cleanings, but if we are wiped clean but insist on living with the sin and keeping it as part of us, then the cleaning that Jesus gives has no affect. Then God will tell us He does not know us for God cannot live with sin.
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There are verses in the Bible that should terrify the individual who is neglecting his or her salvation, who is yielding to the pressure of the world spirit, the seductions of the flesh, or the imaginations and drives of personal ambition. Believers are told to examine themselves and warned: "For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this reason, many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. " (1 Cor. 11:29-32). It is impossible for any of us to know how the Holy Spirit is working in a believer's life. It may not be visible to others in the beginning, but we are NOT the judge--God is. I trust in God's promise that He will fulfill the good work He began in each believer's life. Pray for those who struggle and do not judge lest you be judged, for the righteousness of man is as filthy rags in the eyes of God. It is on the righteousness of Jesus Christ who paid in full the penalty for our sin.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#168
Jun 30, 2015
25,401
13,746
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#168
Blik said:
Isaiah 59:2 Butyour iniquities have built barriers between you and your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear.

Sin Separates Us from God
1Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor His ear too dull to hear. 2Butyour iniquities have built barriers between you and your God, and your sins have hiddenHis face from you, so that He will not hear.

Psalm 5: 4For You are not a God who delights in wickedness; no evil can dwell with You. 5The boastful cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all workers of iniquity.…
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Thanks for replying. You supported half of your assertion, not the whole thing. Once again, your assertion was...

"God will tell us He does not know us for God cannot live with sin."

That assertion, with both parts together, is not in Scripture. You have taken two disparate truths and tried to make one new truth from them. That isn't going to fly.
 
M

metanoia

Member
#169
Mar 29, 2019
40
16
8
#169
Blik said:
How can we hear the words of Jesus yet be deaf to the words asking for repentance? Jesus wipes out our sin and we are made righteous and pure, but how we can be made pure one second and live in sin and dirt the next?

Jesus gave us righteousness, jesus paid for our sin and that was based on our faith not on our obedience to law. It was under grace we received this cleanings, but if we are wiped clean but insist on living with the sin and keeping it as part of us, then the cleaning that Jesus gives has no affect. Then God will tell us He does not know us for God cannot live with sin.
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You just completely contradicted yourself. You just said, "Jesus paid for our sin and that was based on our faith not our obedience to law. It was under grace we received these cleanings..." You also said, "Jesus wipes out our sin and we are made righteous and pure..."
Then you question the righteousness you just declared based on faith and grace and return to the one's obedience to the law in order to demonstrate proof of righteousness. We are either declared positionally and eternally righteous before God through our faith and the grace of God, and not of works, or we are not saved at all. You need to separate the born again spirit of God from the sprit of flesh. Let the Holy Spirit do His job within the lives of each believer. Not all believers become disciples as many remain milk-fed Christians and never mature in God's word. Also, many are led astray and deceived by false teachers, which is demonstrated by the Church of Corinth, but Paul still referred to them as "saints" and "beloved children." Believers have two spirits, the spirit of the flesh, and the Spirit of God. The Bible is our moral compass and believers are always encouraged to "walk in the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the lust of flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another..." (Galations 5:16-17).
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#170
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#170
metanoia said:
You just completely contradicted yourself. You just said, "Jesus paid for our sin and that was based on our faith not our obedience to law. It was under grace we received these cleanings..." You also said, "Jesus wipes out our sin and we are made righteous and pure..."
Then you question the righteousness you just declared based on faith and grace and return to the one's obedience to the law in order to demonstrate proof of righteousness. We are either declared positionally and eternally righteous before God through our faith and the grace of God, and not of works, or we are not saved at all. You need to separate the born again spirit of God from the sprit of flesh. Let the Holy Spirit do His job within the lives of each believer. Not all believers become disciples as many remain milk-fed Christians and never mature in God's word. Also, many are led astray and deceived by false teachers, which is demonstrated by the Church of Corinth, but Paul still referred to them as "saints" and "beloved children." Believers have two spirits, the spirit of the flesh, and the Spirit of God. The Bible is our moral compass and believers are always encouraged to "walk in the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the lust of flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another..." (Galations 5:16-17).
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Absolutely. God gives us grace, we do not earn it. That is a fact. God expects us to die to sin with Christ when we accept God's grace. That is a fact. If you want to argue against a fact of the Lord, don't go to me, go to God.
 
M

metanoia

Member
#171
Mar 29, 2019
40
16
8
#171
Blik said:
Absolutely. God gives us grace, we do not earn it. That is a fact. God expects us to die to sin with Christ when we accept God's grace. That is a fact. If you want to argue against a fact of the Lord, don't go to me, go to God.
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I most definitely was NOT arguing against God's truth. Romans 8:1-4 "There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin. He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Note: No one would be able to keep the law without the indwelling of the Spirit. Law-keeping doesn't save people; they must be saved before they can keep the law. Augustine said, "The Law is given that grace might be sought; grace is given that the Law might be fulfilled."
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#172
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#172
Chester said:
Just finish Paul's thought -- It is impossible to renew them to repentance again while they are crucifying Christ and putting him to an open shame.
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While they are (re) crucifying Him and putting Him to an open shame.



JLB
 
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