Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

I always appreciate your good attitude. I started out in a Pentecostal/charismatic church, and I never liked the atmosphere of fear that was prevalent there, or in other, similar churches. People I disagreed with would say things like 'don't come against God's anointed,' or ,'beware you don't blaspheme the Holy Spirit.' Pastors who preached contrary to the bible would get angry if I questioned them about it. I was hurt and confused by that then, but now I realize that it was only ignorance.

People don't understand Christ and what He has done for us.

What people mostly do understand is the Law. Because everyone is, or has been, under the law, at least at some point.

And the law says do this and be blessed, don't do that or be cursed.


That is the argument against OSAS. It is how can a person be saved if they aren't doing the do's of being blessed and they are doing the don'ts of being cursed?

The bigger question is WHO is the One doing the defining of what the do's and don'ts are?

Most people think that the law is pretty easy to understand. It's because no one understands TRULY what it says until they are saved and no longer under it.


No longer under the threat of having to do the dos to be blessed and no longer worried about not doing the don'ts of being cursed. How is that possible? Because, Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ has done the dos to the Highest so that we can be blessed.

We are not blessed because we think we have done the dos. That is just pure imagination. Pure silliness really if you are a Christian and have read your bible.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

So if Righteousness before God doesn't come through your actions, or your "obedience" to the law, then how does Righteousness come?

It comes through faith in Christ. Without Christ we can do nothing. We can't grow the fruit of Righteousness just by our own will or understanding. It is Christ, and Christ Alone who grows this fruit of Righteousness.

A Christian doesn't keep himself saved by ensuring all his actions are righteous. Or maybe once in a while does some righteous actions to offset some of the un-righteous actions he has done.

A Christian is kept saved by the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ doesn't give His Gifts like some people do. He doesn't say "Here is life, but if you step over that line I will take it back". He gives His Gift eternally with no threats of revocation. Irrevocable.

Some people say that "Irr re VOC able" but I prefer saying it "Ir REV ocable" or Ir-revakabull. Either way it is Irrevocable.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


If you insist that Salvation can be lost then you are saying that God does take His Gifts back. That is simply an un-biblical statement.

You can't be any more un-saved than you can be un-born from your mother or father. Its too late. Like it or not. You just have to live with it. The Lord Jesus Loves you and He's not going to stop. Just like our physical mothers and fathers, only better...

Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

People don't understand Christ and what He has done for us.

What people mostly do understand is the Law. Because everyone is, or has been, under the law, at least at some point.

And the law says do this and be blessed, don't do that or be cursed.


That is the argument against OSAS. It is how can a person be saved if they aren't doing the do's of being blessed and they are doing the don'ts of being cursed?

The bigger question is WHO is the One doing the defining of what the do's and don'ts are?

Most people think that the law is pretty easy to understand. It's because no one understands TRULY what it says until they are saved and no longer under it.


No longer under the threat of having to do the dos to be blessed and no longer worried about not doing the don'ts of being cursed. How is that possible? Because, Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ has done the dos to the Highest so that we can be blessed.

We are not blessed because we think we have done the dos. That is just pure imagination. Pure silliness really if you are a Christian and have read your bible.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

So if Righteousness before God doesn't come through your actions, or your "obedience" to the law, then how does Righteousness come?

It comes through faith in Christ. Without Christ we can do nothing. We can't grow the fruit of Righteousness just by our own will or understanding. It is Christ, and Christ Alone who grows this fruit of Righteousness.

A Christian doesn't keep himself saved by ensuring all his actions are righteous. Or maybe once in a while does some righteous actions to offset some of the un-righteous actions he has done.

A Christian is kept saved by the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ doesn't give His Gifts like some people do. He doesn't say "Here is life, but if you step over that line I will take it back". He gives His Gift eternally with no threats of revocation. Irrevocable.

Some people say that "Irr re VOC able" but I prefer saying it "Ir REV ocable" or Ir-revakabull. Either way it is Irrevocable.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


If you insist that Salvation can be lost then you are saying that God does take His Gifts back. That is simply an un-biblical statement.

You can't be any more un-saved than you can be un-born from your mother or father. Its too late. Like it or not. You just have to live with it. The Lord Jesus Loves you and He's not going to stop. Just like our physical mothers and fathers, only better...

Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

God doesn't take his gift back, but I believe we can throw it away

I always appreciate your good attitude. I started out in a Pentecostal/charismatic church, and I never liked the atmosphere of fear that was prevalent there, or in other, similar churches. People I disagreed with would say things like 'don't come against God's anointed,' or ,'beware you don't blaspheme the Holy Spirit.' Pastors who preached contrary to the bible would get angry if I questioned them about it. I was hurt and confused by that then, but now I realize that it was only ignorance.

I believe that the ignorance was on their part and not yours. The church that you described sounds like a horrid place and glad that you got out of that environment that promotes fear and guilt. It is not a spiritually healthy place to be.

Are you saying The Bible is...horrid?
You have made an improper assessment of that church's teaching. From what the poster said they were spot on.

When we deal with G-d's word we must take it as He has instructed. We have no authority to change, modify or amend His word, literally or by intent.

You are missing a point...I am afraid.

The Bible tells us to ......fear G-d. Further...., the Bible tells us that we would be better off if we had never knew and never made a commitment than to backslide.
What did the church you speak of say that was not included in G-d's word.

(Sounds like some new age religion folks has swayed you...give it better thought..it's your eternal salvation ....not anyone else's..by your actions).

Do not be persuaded by the new age religion types that want to..."tickle your ears and tell you what you want to hear".

If you are.... born again.... and are living a righteous life since repentance and baptism...what would you be afraid of?
Give that point careful thought.

God doesn't take his gift back, but I believe we can throw it away

The pastor obviously uses fear and guilt as a teaching tool and certain members chide others to get with the program. Yeah, horrid place to be. The message may have been spiritual but the delivery was harsh, ineffective and would tend to alienate the congregation and stifle spiritual growth. No, you know as well as I do that I was not referring to the bible in my response so let's don't go there, OK? There is church teaching and spiritual teaching, the two are often at odds with one another.

Some people have faith in God.
Some people have faith in self.
IF you believe salvation can be lost, in any way, shape, or form, then you believe in self.
If you believe it is God that saves us and keeps us saved then you have faith in God.

God doesn't take his gift back, but I believe we can throw it away

Could we also throw away Adam's sinful nature, without turning to Jesus?

Adams sinful nature could only be thrown away if it was a thing.

I believe that the ignorance was on their part and not yours. The church that you described sounds like a horrid place and glad that you got out of that environment that promotes fear and guilt. It is not a spiritually healthy place to be.

It is said that, according the NT Greek, whenever Paul talks about sin, he is almost always using it as a noun, which means precisely, people, place, or thing.

Only in very few instances he used sin as a verb, which is action, most famously that verse, "shall we sin more so that grace would increase"

May I be able to translate this language into a different frame of reference.
God saves us, but asks us to respond.
Our response needs to be driven from a cleansed, purified heart.

So if the believer is not purified, then it is sin which responds and therefore fails.
If the believers is purified and dwells in Christ, it is Christ responding through them.

So here the distinction is response from the action of God on the heart of the believer.

Another faith says, we are saved separate from a heart change, and any connection with
our actions, is a statement of unbelief in the need for God alone to act.

So in this world self, is seen as innately evil and incapable of anything good even when
cleansed. So with this view, anyone claiming to be purified and make clean so acts
of righteousness can be performed is denying God and being self righteous.

This is a view, but not of scripture. Paul declares we can be Holy and walk Holy.

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4:7

Holiness is only achieved by being cleansed and purified, and having Christ move within us.

The excuse that is used for these verses is it is referring to Christ in us, while we are fallen
sinners still sinning, we have a dualistic experience of life, some actions driven by Christ,
holy and some by the flesh, sinful, so we can be viewed as two different people.

Be careful how you use the word....saved.
Remember ...it is appointed unto man once to die (physical death) and then the judgement.

We are .....born again ......while on this earth...living a righteous life....hopefully.
G-d will decide if we are....saved.

I doubt He appreciates some folks using the term ...saved...note the pass tense....on this earth thereby trying to negate His judgement.

The prolific signs on the fence posts around the word....have you been saved....obviously not if I can read the sign .........for I am still alive.