Not By Works

WHAT!!???

THIS IS a false, works Gospel!

God is NOT going to toss HIS born again Children in Hell.
Those who have built on the firm foundation of Jesus Christ with wood hay and stubble will suffer loss, but THEY themselves will be saved.


This type of works for Salvation Gospel by JPT is dangerous, and needs to be stamped out.

That's my point.

No fruit...
No salvation.

First of all, I wish everyone would stop misquoting 1 Corinthians 3:11-------

Second of all,,,,born-again persons are not going to hell.

Third-----the question is. WHO IS BORN AGAIN?

Those that say they are....
or those that do the will of God Father?
Mathew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.


Also, could you explain to me why it's DANGEROUS to preach obedience to God?

And I hear you go to a Nazarene church...is this true?
Difficult to believe.

Following the path

Following Jesus seems to be a central issue.
Like in a movie if you zoomed in to the sheep, you would find them following the Jesus.

Is it possible to have a sheep not following? No. Because it is the definition of a sheep.
A non following sheep is lost. If the sheep was not lost, they are just feeding a little
further away than others.

What about those who say a sheep can exist that does not follow?
But if they were a sheep they would not be there.
Not following is abiding in sin, evil and becoming polluted by the world.

Once you start saying sheep can abide in sin and evil, you end up saying religion is
just a flag of belief at some point in ones life, which may or may not have meaning today.

But maybe the hatred of hypocrisy, the trying to follow the path while sinning, is
actually the cause for throwing out the path altogether.

Listen to those non path believers. Only hatred of path followers, or fakers, legalists,
is their repeated experience. I know this hatred, feeling. It is hard to be rejected by
legalist, especially if one used to be one. It is like a betrayal of ones own people.

But as Jesus said, the problem was they did not walk the path, they only claimed they
did. Ask them if they believed Jesus empowered them to walk the path, and most would
say no. Which is not surprising why they failed and nothing added up.

I am neither a legalist, or a non-path walker. I walk the path because love is the only
way, and bringing everything to the King, and the cross, and I mean literally everything,
everyday, and in every way. Do you believe Christ died so that you can follow Him?

right.

no fruit- no salvation.

but, that is where the conversation needs to end.
when you start talking about how much fruit one bears, what time frame does one bear it, in then the focus turns from faith to works, which do NOT save.

your salvation is not maintained by bearing fruit, fruit tress bear fruit BECAUSE they are fruit trees, not to prove that they are fruit trees.

Nope. Im done.

This type of works for Salvation Gospel by JPT is dangerous, and needs to be stamped out

Thank you Penn for declaring your loyalty to a cause.
And the aggression "stamped out"

Who is anyone to judge another and declare their experience of God and way of expressing
it is so bad one would want to destroy it?

Have I said I want to destroy your faith or expression?
Does Jesus say He wants to destroy any ones faith or expression?

Jesus wants us to discover Him and walk in His ways.
You claim to go to a Nazarene church yet you are opposing a central theme
they are following. Odd that. Do you want to stamp them out?

This is yet another doctrinal anchor that is dismissed by the works righteousness crowds.

You said "right"....
But then you said "wrong"....

I, personally, NEVER said anything about an amount of fruit or the timing of it.

I also never said works save.
I have always said that works are necessary for sanctification.

You could disgaree if you want to...
But how do you explain this about fruit:



John 15:1-6
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

It sounds pretty clear and simple to me.
Instead of a comment....would you care to exegete the above?

These arguments are the typical fall back defense of the works righteousness crowd.

Hi gb9,

I believe exactly this. Works are the expression of life within.
But without walking in faith, taking steps of faith, the change never happens.

I remember wondering before the Lord why I did not feel blessing before I walked.
It seems the walk, is the statement of faith, which then God blesses.

We want the blessing before we walk, so then in truth, we do not have to walk, as
it is easier to stay where we are than pay the price.

So why do you argue so strongly? Can you shine a light my brother?

Jesus wants us to believe in Him.

all these other requirements are man- made non-sense.

" when I am lifted up, I will draw all men to Myself"

not " I will draw all men to look deep inside and study their emotions , and share their experiences "

that is worldly, psycho babble.

Good.
You haven't much to say anyway....
Thus the comments that make no sense.

I am not sure I understand you.
I am not defending anything. I am testifying to my experience.
As I walk my heart lifts to God. You seem to think this is something
external to ourselves and who we are in Christ. If Christ is within you
it His work that is working out in everything you do.

Obviously this idea or way of expressing things is not yours.
God bless you, in however you know God

Wrong again.

In Matt: 13:22 Jesus said the seed in the third soil represents a man who hears the word but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it making it unfruitful.

A planted seed can take life and grow without bearing fruit because neither of these are fruit-bearing events.

Ever see a tomato plant with no tomatoes...it happens.

The way a believer bears fruit is to remain in a close personal relationship with the Lord, following the prompting of the Holy Spirit, and working in the strength of the Lord.

Many people do not do this.

Plus fruit in this parable can mean converts.

Are you a slop bucket or a Holy Temple indwelt by the Holy Spirit?

When we come as sinners before the cross we are slop buckets?
Sounds to me like you are happy to remain as such.

I can but testify to what repentance, confession and following Jesus
mean, and work out in peoples lives. It has been the same since the
disciples first started preaching, and people repented.

Yeah.
Works are bad.....
bad
bad
bad


BTW....did Moses lead those Israelites out of Egypt?
Was that a work?

Did he part the Red Sea (well, it wasn't really the Red Sea)
Was that a work?

What about those 10 commandments....
Are they a work?

Did Adam have to keep the Garden...BEFORE the fall....
Is that a work?


Looks like WORKS are throughout the entire bible....

I will address you directly this one time only. and this is for fran also.

the reason I fight so hard is this- THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

you and others are offering another way.

there is no other way. there is no " believe in Jesus and....."

once you put the "and " in there, you just left the narrow way.

once you leave it, you are on the broad road of destruction.

I understand that it is hard to resist religion, religion says " do good and be saved ".

but, that is not the Gospel.

the Gospel- believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. and you will be saved.

Believe what you will UG.
Your'e too far off for me to deal with.
I'm really sorry.

Please reply to my above post...

Please exegete John 15:1-6
Thank you kindly.


As to the above....
Jesus plus......refers to SALVATION....or JUSTIFICATION.
And you are RIGHT.

Religion does not say BE GOOD AND BE SAVED.
JESUS SAYS THIS.

I have to leave right now....
Maybe @Argueless or @justpassinthrough , or @FollowHisSteps
would like to post some scripture??