Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I think Jesus makes the point very well....he said he was lost, even though he was a son he was lost.......and he said he was dead........showing us that backslid prodigals must come to themselves and come home......this son didn't wander away like the sheep....in his rebellion he walked away.....the father didn't stop him.......the father never went and got him from hogpen "he came to himself and said I will go to father"
-
1
- Show all
yes, the lost need salvation . ( you changed the question ).
but, the Shepherds sheep are the Shepherds sheep, based on their belief in the Shepherd as THE Shepherd.
a sheep is a sheep , a goat is a goat.
the goat does not listen to nor care about what the Shepherd says.
a sheep can get lost, wonder off, but is still a sheep.
you can spin and twist all you want, but MY SHEEP still means exactly what the Shepherd said- His sheep. while lost , still His sheep.
but, the Shepherds sheep are the Shepherds sheep, based on their belief in the Shepherd as THE Shepherd.
a sheep is a sheep , a goat is a goat.
the goat does not listen to nor care about what the Shepherd says.
a sheep can get lost, wonder off, but is still a sheep.
you can spin and twist all you want, but MY SHEEP still means exactly what the Shepherd said- His sheep. while lost , still His sheep.
-
4
- Show all
Yes sir I absolutely agree he died for everyone
To be honest, I'm not quit sure about the other part of your question........if everyones name is written, it would seem I would have to believe in predestination ( some born for hell and some for heaven)
I lean more towards the names of the born again written at time of conversion......
And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
Philippians 4:3 KJV
To be honest, I'm not quit sure about the other part of your question........if everyones name is written, it would seem I would have to believe in predestination ( some born for hell and some for heaven)
I lean more towards the names of the born again written at time of conversion......
And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
Philippians 4:3 KJV
-
1
- Show all
We are not saved by works but everyone will receive according to his works:
"Behold I come quickly and my reward is with Me, to give every one according as his work shall be."
Hopefully we are doing the Work of God and not full of ourselves: not having learned to Love as He Loved.
Works could not save us as its about loosing our sinful life to find Life in Christ and His message, "Honor all men."
Love is the power of the Holy Spirit to turn an enemy into a friend: Not about competing and trying to prove ourselves acceptable to God, but an exchange of Life with Christ. "Now is the accepted time of Renewal." "Inwardly we are being renewed day by day."
Grace is the Work of God because No-One could do it. "No-One like Him," the Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself but reveals Jesus. "Until now the Father Works and I Work." We follow Jesus "As labourers together with God."
"And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him." "He that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin." The end will not come until the number of those who are to suffer with Him and overcome is fulfilled. "Then ach of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants were killed, just as they had been killed." The time of trouble such as never was is upon us.
"At that time His voice shook the earth, but now He has promised, 'Once more I shake not only the earth, but heaven as well; and this, 'Once more' signifies the removing of the being shaken, as having been created, so that the things not being shaken should remain." These eternal beings are those who overcome by the Holy Spirit. "They overcame by the blood of the lamb, and by the Word of their testimony and they loved not their lives as much as to shrink from death." The Last qualification is by the holy spirit.
The first qualifies little children who are forgiven,
The second, those in fellowship with the Father and nurturing children,
3: "Young men because you are strong and know the Word of God dwells in you and have overcome the evil one." 1John 2: 10 to 17.
"Behold I come quickly and my reward is with Me, to give every one according as his work shall be."
Hopefully we are doing the Work of God and not full of ourselves: not having learned to Love as He Loved.
Works could not save us as its about loosing our sinful life to find Life in Christ and His message, "Honor all men."
Love is the power of the Holy Spirit to turn an enemy into a friend: Not about competing and trying to prove ourselves acceptable to God, but an exchange of Life with Christ. "Now is the accepted time of Renewal." "Inwardly we are being renewed day by day."
Grace is the Work of God because No-One could do it. "No-One like Him," the Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself but reveals Jesus. "Until now the Father Works and I Work." We follow Jesus "As labourers together with God."
"And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him." "He that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin." The end will not come until the number of those who are to suffer with Him and overcome is fulfilled. "Then ach of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants were killed, just as they had been killed." The time of trouble such as never was is upon us.
"At that time His voice shook the earth, but now He has promised, 'Once more I shake not only the earth, but heaven as well; and this, 'Once more' signifies the removing of the being shaken, as having been created, so that the things not being shaken should remain." These eternal beings are those who overcome by the Holy Spirit. "They overcame by the blood of the lamb, and by the Word of their testimony and they loved not their lives as much as to shrink from death." The Last qualification is by the holy spirit.
The first qualifies little children who are forgiven,
The second, those in fellowship with the Father and nurturing children,
3: "Young men because you are strong and know the Word of God dwells in you and have overcome the evil one." 1John 2: 10 to 17.
-
1
- Show all
Now THANK YOU, someone with an open mind. I do not mind if we disagree, but people the do not know ditty about wait we TEACH and BELIEVE, and then they insist that we teach that one you are saved you do not THINK it does not matter if you want to disobey, is a bunch of rotten eggs. I have been called all kinds of OFFENSIVE NAMES, and told that GOD's Curse is on me, simply because I believe in OSAS, and that PERSON has the ERRONEOUS MEANING FOR THAT TERM.
OBEDIENCE is every bit a part of OSAS beliefs in EVERY Church that I have been part of. HOWEVER, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION, it is PART OF LOVE, and Sanctification. We have been FALSELY ACCUSED of that LIE ever sense I was Born Again the last week of 1977, and PROBABLY FOR DECADES BEFORE THAT.
The Biggest Mistake is that Armenians have made, is ASSUMING that SANCTIFICATION and SALVATION are the same thing. They are a lifetime of Miles apart. Salvation of the Human Spirit happens the moment the HOLY SPIRIT comes in, and it is a FREE GIFT of GOD. While Sanctification is a RESULT OF OUR LOVE FOR HIM, where we learn to Walk like Christ, and to LOVE GOD ENOUGH TO OBEY HIM. And that process will not be complete until we are at the RESURRECTION. THAT IS WHAT OSAS HAS BEEN in every Church I have been involved in, and WE MOVED A LOT WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER. Those that think they are OSAS and NEVER TRY TO OBEY HIM, are FALSE Brethren, and those are the ones that FALL AWAY, which means they NEVER WERE BORN AGAIN.
If you doubt that SALVATION is a Free Gift of GOD, and it happens the moment the Holy Spirit comes into our HEART, these verses should convince you:
Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
And the BIGGEST REASON I absolutely wholeheartedly believe in OSAS is this portion of Scripture, among others:
John 10:27-30 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them [equals Born Again], and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand {not even self}.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”
-
2
- Show all
Let us look at Galatians.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Gal 5:6
The believers are saying you need to be circumcised to be in the Kingdom.
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
Gal 3:10
Paul is saying simply, if you take part of the signs of following Gods way as justification of ones position before God, you then have to take it all. He is not saying obeying the whole law is bad, just it denies that which is the fulfilment of the law, Christ Jesus.
A silver thread through all of this is "faith expressing itself through love"
But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
Gal 3:22
We are a prisoner of sin, except in Christ we are free. But if one does not believe Christ can set us free from sin,
and sin is besetting in ones life, where is the salvation Christ is offering?
Why would someone choose to believe Jesus changes nothing in the believers life, and there is no testimony of
change or reality, believing the Holy Spirit can dwell within an uncleansed person.
What can be is a person can come to faith, yet deny Jesus to cleanse issues in their heart. In the end this is
denying Jesus and salvation. Only time will tell which one in the battle for a soul will win out. It is clear as with
Peter and Judas, some choose the Lord while others the payment of this world.
I have read the pornography changes the structure of the brain. So some besetting sins are about sowing to life
and God bringing about physical change through choice over time. We are born one way, but can choose to walk
with God another way, and find we become something in Him which was not there at the beginning, a new creation,
born and made for the Kingdom of heaven.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Gal 5:6
The believers are saying you need to be circumcised to be in the Kingdom.
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
Gal 3:10
Paul is saying simply, if you take part of the signs of following Gods way as justification of ones position before God, you then have to take it all. He is not saying obeying the whole law is bad, just it denies that which is the fulfilment of the law, Christ Jesus.
A silver thread through all of this is "faith expressing itself through love"
But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
Gal 3:22
We are a prisoner of sin, except in Christ we are free. But if one does not believe Christ can set us free from sin,
and sin is besetting in ones life, where is the salvation Christ is offering?
Why would someone choose to believe Jesus changes nothing in the believers life, and there is no testimony of
change or reality, believing the Holy Spirit can dwell within an uncleansed person.
What can be is a person can come to faith, yet deny Jesus to cleanse issues in their heart. In the end this is
denying Jesus and salvation. Only time will tell which one in the battle for a soul will win out. It is clear as with
Peter and Judas, some choose the Lord while others the payment of this world.
I have read the pornography changes the structure of the brain. So some besetting sins are about sowing to life
and God bringing about physical change through choice over time. We are born one way, but can choose to walk
with God another way, and find we become something in Him which was not there at the beginning, a new creation,
born and made for the Kingdom of heaven.
