Not By Works

Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Faith and works go hand in hand with each other, true faith = works. We are not saved by our works, we are saved by faith in Jesus's works. But no or bad works = no relationship with Jesus.

Unbelievers will go to hell.

As far as believers go - what sins do we have that are not already paid for?

Can unbelievers do just as many or better good works than believers?

Works are not PART OF SALVATION. This will prove IT:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

HOWEVER, OBEDIENCE is Part of our GOD GIVEN LOVE.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

yes i hope i didn't imply that we work our way to heaven or earn salvation. It is a GIFT, and a gift can not be brought or earnt. I just believe that true faith results in a relationship with Jesus, which results in Godly works. If you love Jesus it will be seen in your fruits.
By your fruits you shall know them,
1Jn 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Did Jesus walk in sin? Are we called to walk like Him, and is not His walk the fulfilment
of the promise and the foundation of the Kingdom?

Yet some claim they can walk as sinners and still fulfil Gods intent.
Scripture is clear. To walk in sin and to continue in it is to die.
To refuse to repent, and to believe Christ has set us free, is to be an unbeliever.

So those who claim they can stay sinners, sinning while believing they believe Jesus
has set them free and live in denial of the walk, are living in delusion. They do not believe
the cross and the effect of the indwelling Holy Spirit in the heart of man.

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me
Matt 19:21

We hear and yet we do not hear.
If you want to be perfect, not here is an impossible goal I want to give you, just to make you feel
a failure and so you trust me to do it all for you.

No Jesus said being perfect was giving up the world and following Him.

We make this a take a note, does not apply to me, because ofcourse we cannot be perfect.

But we are called to be like Him, to follow Him, to walk in His ways, to know His power.
And yes this sounds impossible, which is why He spent 3 years showing the disciples who He was
and how it works. And when you know Him, really know Him and trust Him, and He holds you, it
is actually easy, and the burden is light, because it is our fear, worry, insecurity, frailty that drives so
much of everything we do, and the evil that binds us, once we start to justify our selfishness to ourselves.

A member here demonstrates disbelief is Jesus's call, and Jesus's faith in our ability to follow.
He mocks anyone who believes Jesus. And yet will claim he is saved, destined for heaven and trusts Jesus.

The cross is impossible, the pain and cruelty, and the resurrection so ridiculous it could not have happened,
except, Jesus's closest friends, who fled because they wanted victory over the Romans, suddenly were faced with
the ridiculous being true. And with the Holy Spirit anointing them, the walk also became an impossible reality.

So to be cynical is to be honest, until Jesus the Son of God makes His reality known to your heart and you become
a believer that the impossible in now here, the door is now open and the example provided.

Amen! Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means of obtaining salvation. Faith in Christ is the ROOT of salvation and good works which follow are the FRUIT. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.

This is an interesting story. What does it mean to put your whole trust in Jesus for salvation.
One idea is a passive trust. Stay where you are, go to sleep, dance, sing etc. it is all done, nothing else
has to happen.
One idea is active trust. You have to walk out and put into effect your faith, do what you are told to
do because through obedience God will do all that needs to be done.

Passive trust group suggest by actually doing what one is told to do by the Lord, you are disbelieving
you are saved, and calling Him a liar. This is a strange idea. He tells us to obey, to actually put into
action His commands and words, just as He obeyed His Father.

Let us put this in context. This world is doomed, a place of struggle and death. It works on power and
selfish desires, domination and greed. If we are to leave this place and find God, we need to become
people like Jesus, transformed within, walking in His ways, the ways of the Kingdom.

So putting into effect Jesus's words, trusting Him that through obedience He will transform us that is
literally trusting Him, because the world says nothing will change and it is just a pipe dream.
To not obey, to walk in evil, to deny the boundaries of sin and His victory, is to call Him a liar and the
cross powerless and defeated. His sheep hear His voice, so thank you brothers and sisters in Christ for
listening to our Lord and following Him into the Kingdom. Praise the Lord we have the victory through
obeying His word while being full of the Holy Spirit, Amen.

All the sins that we do not confess.


Thank you for exposing just how deceitful the OSAS doctrine is.


It sends God’s people to hell, because the think they can live in sin and never repent or confess their sins, thinking they are all forgiven.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9



He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4



Those who claim to have “eternal life”, salvation, yet do not keep His commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them.




JPT

Following Jesus is salvation, it is walking in heaven, knowing life conquering death.
Language here is so mixed up, where people desire to say they are safe, before they have arrived.

Paul doubted his calling, his view. He wanted to confirm he was not walking in vain.
Faith is about trust, about becoming eternal from the mortal and worldly into the divine and redeemed.

Our goal is the mountain top, we are not there yet, but we will never achieve it unless we take the
next step, and the next. Along the way, the Lord seals us through the Holy Spirit, transforming us from
one state of glory to the next. Our calling is eternal, and will always be transformative.

But the change takes time, is a growth for being a distant image to a clear reality.
It is the walk that proves the reality of the communion, and for some the delusional compromise they
would rather have. Once you become conceited and give up on the sacrifice, sin stays put, things solidify
and you get this continual war of condemnation against those that praise worship and follow.

Faith that remains alone -- barren of works is dead and that faith is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. James is simply stating faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14-20)

Faith is activated the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Ephesians 2:5 - even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)... 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

A distinction without a difference. In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18). Teaching that we are saved by faith + works in general would be works that earn salvation. You can't have it both ways.

..made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved through faith, not works... (Ephesians 2:5-9) Works of obedience FOLLOW faith being activated and made alive with Christ. You have it backwards.

Faith is not dead UNTIL it produces works, which is like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit. Works are not the source of life in faith; rather life in faith is the source of works. Something that is dead cannot produce anything.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

*James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith plus works? NO by faith "apart from additions or modifications" (faith rightly understood in Christ alone) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

My challenge for you: *Please post a scripture that says we are "justified by faith and works" or "saved by faith and works."

David

a. Described as a man after God's own heart
b. Writes the Psalms (inspired of God) <--Holy MEN of God penned the word (Peter)
c. Speaks of his salvation in the present tense and the JOY of it being restored (NOT salvation itself)

How would you describe the following works that came from him

a. Too Bathsheba and committed adultery
b. Conspired to cover it up through some scheme and trying to trick Uriah to sleep with with his own wife
c. Signed his death warrant and by order had Uriah CARRY his own death warrant to the front lines where he was killed in battle
d. Numbered his military after he was told it would be evil

You guys need to get over the fact that saved people on occasion have bad fruit or works in their lives, and then grasp that the difference between a believer and a LOST man is that a believer's works will be tried by fire, and then rewarded for what is left and the SIMPLE truth that GOD CHASTENS BELIEVERS when they SIN as evidenced by DAVID'S life AFTER the above.....

The cost.....

Lost first born with Bathsheba <--innocent son of David took his place <---picture of Jesus
Sword in his house all the days of his life
Rebellious son Absalom
Open shame before all Israel
Physical ailments as evidenced by the Psalms

And concerning numbering the military..
Given three options by God to chose from<---pestilence in the land three days

YET not forsaken by God and no loss of salvation....................A man after God's own heart!

They think so and even name Jesus a Lord....

Lord, Lord, HAVE we not done many wonderful works in your name <----the religious lost that tie works with faith to gain or keep salvation

This question basically is saying, why do we have to be concerned about the sin we commit?

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.
James 5:16

Sin causes damage, destruction, death. We need healing or we will die.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

If we do not confess our sins, we are not purified and so damned.
If we claim to not have to deal with the sin or do not have sin, we make Jesus to be a liar and His word has not place
in our lives

If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives
1 John 1:10

A fool says the sin I do has no consequences I need to worry about. The fool will think up any excuse to hide,
paper over and deny they have to deal with anything. But their house is built upon sand, and when the storms
come the house collapses.

The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice.
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.
Prov 12:15-16

The senseless man does not know, fools do not understand, that though the wicked spring up like grass and all evildoers flourish, they will be forever destroyed.
Psalm 92:6-7

The memory of the righteous will be a blessing, but the name of the wicked will rot.
The wise in heart accept commands, but a chattering fool comes to ruin.
The man of integrity walks securely, but he who takes crooked paths will be found out.
Prov 10:7-9

Could you please post the scripture where Jesus said this?

It would be appreciated if you would back up your statements with scripture.

Jesus NEVER said the above quoted by you.

Here again,,,,

PLEASE show where in Matthew 7:13-23 Jesus ever used the words "salvation" or "religious" in his teaching.
ALL He spoke about was bearing good fruit...
and the UNLAWFULL will have to depart from Him.


Matthew 7:13-23 Jesus said:
13“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.



A Tree and Its Fruit

15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

The Kingdom of God IS in the world.
You really didn't know this?

Jesus spoke about the Kingdom of God being here.
No one will find a pearl in heaven.....but here we can. ALL of heaven is a "pearl",,,not need to find one.
No sheep will become lost in heaven...only here on earth.

Jesus wanted us to be born again and create a better world RIGHT HERE.
He spoke a lot about the Kingdom on earth of which we should be a part.

A Kingdom has a King.........Jesus
A Kingdom has inhabitants....Us
A Kingdom has rules...........Jesus' commandments

Here again you confuse matters.

You said what the member wrote is ignorant....
Could you explain why please. Again,,,I don't see the word "saved" anywhere...just wheat and tares.
Here's what the other member said: (@Argueless

Who will the angels WEED OUT of GOD'S KINGDOM? Aren't they supposed to belong to GOD'S kingdom first before they can be weeded out of it?


Seems to me like he's right. The field represents the world. The wheat and the tares are growing together. Jesus did speak a lot about the Kingdom of God being on earth. So if one is a tare and in the Kingdom of God....he will be weeded out.

Please explain your position better.

Agreed.
So if there is no fruit, or bad fruit...
there is no salvation.

Pretty much what I've been saying,,,

If we do good deeds and/or produce good fruit...we're saved.
If we see no good fruit...we're not saved.

Turn it how you want to....that's the bottom line.

Call it demonstrative evidence....
Call it keeping salvation.....

it's the same in the end...and it's the end that will count.


Romans 8:1-8
1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

We could learn from the above:

1. IF we are IN Christ Jesus (attached to the vine) there is no condemnation for us.

Why?

2. The law of the SPIRIT of LIFE IN CHRIST has set us free from the law of sin...(we no longer wish to sin).

3. The Law (the Mosaic Covenant) could not make us obey...it took God to make this happen via the Holy Spirit IN US. Because we are IN CHRIST...this did not exist before the New Covenant.

4. The Law is fulfilled in us IF we walk according to the Spirit...
IF........we are IN CHRIST......IF we bear good fruit......IF we are not the lawless.....etc.

5. Those who are of the flesh....those are hostile toward God.
These are those that do not bear fruit and are not IN CHRIST.


Please note that in verse 9 Paul states that we are not in the flesh IF the spirit of God dwells in us.

And if the spirit of God dwells in us then we will bear good fruit...stay attached to the Vine...and we will not be the lawless.

IF we DO NOT have the spirit of Christ, as proven from the above...we do not belong to Him.