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....Careful Jaumel! Elst you should be accused of "works=salvation!"
It seems the quote, "Faith without works", is dead, falls on "empirical" ears! -smh
Just as those with short attention spans don't read past the word "covet!" When it concerns the earnest acquisition of Spiritual gifts! (Oh!...it says "covet!"....Coveting, is a sin!) -smh
It seems the quote, "Faith without works", is dead, falls on "empirical" ears! -smh
Just as those with short attention spans don't read past the word "covet!" When it concerns the earnest acquisition of Spiritual gifts! (Oh!...it says "covet!"....Coveting, is a sin!) -smh
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To this point in time I have posted at least fifty times we are not bound to most of the 613 or 611 laws of the Torah for the vast majority have been accomplished by our Lord and Savior, and it would be ridiculous to even consider them. He has fulfilled the laws of theTemple, the laws of the Priesthood, the laws of sacrifice, the clean laws, any ritualistic laws and more, this covers almost all of them, however the laws that make up the two great laws of love are somewhat itemized in the remaining laws, not to mentin the prophetic laws…..and so it goes…..we do not need to memorize them nor spout them off rote when our hearts have the law written on them
It is obvious we are to worship one God and not idols, we are to respect our parents, we are not to steal, we are not to moon over what others have (covet), and all the obviously caring laws. We know if a law does not possess mercy it is not good. Jesus has taught me all of this and more...….it is up to the body memebers of Jesus to hear Him and learn from HIm first and foremost.
It is obvious we are to worship one God and not idols, we are to respect our parents, we are not to steal, we are not to moon over what others have (covet), and all the obviously caring laws. We know if a law does not possess mercy it is not good. Jesus has taught me all of this and more...….it is up to the body memebers of Jesus to hear Him and learn from HIm first and foremost.
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Not the 613. They were never meant for us. A new commandment, in two
parts, yes. Absolutely
It fulfills all the law and all the prophets
parts, yes. Absolutely
It fulfills all the law and all the prophets
Those laws give the spirit of God and apply to how God works in the culture they were given for. The food laws were to teach to keep our minds and body clean. The laws not to mix things are to teach to respect God's creation as God created it. They were given to a culture that was thousands of years ago, but the spirit is with us today.
If we would look for the spirit of the law as given and apply it to our culture it would make our life today so much better. As an example, man redoes God's way with wheat so our white bread has no nutrition, does not feed our body properly. Our
TV and fiction has dirt in it and at its worst it produces crime.
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Where is your ark? Both boat and box.
The law does not impart the Spirit. They are spiritual, they are holy, but they do not impart the Spirit of God on or within those who 'obey' those laws. The Spirit is within them, both the law and the observer, and the law giver. But he law is not the Spirit, and the law is not able to impart the Spirit.
Yes, the Spirit that gave those laws is with us today, all followers. All followers of Messiah have the Spirit, who guides and protects, shields and saves. Till the day of our redemption.
And to that I say Bravo! I agree! It is good for many things, and the American justice system was based on the Law given Israel.
The law does not impart the Spirit. They are spiritual, they are holy, but they do not impart the Spirit of God on or within those who 'obey' those laws. The Spirit is within them, both the law and the observer, and the law giver. But he law is not the Spirit, and the law is not able to impart the Spirit.
Yes, the Spirit that gave those laws is with us today, all followers. All followers of Messiah have the Spirit, who guides and protects, shields and saves. Till the day of our redemption.
And to that I say Bravo! I agree! It is good for many things, and the American justice system was based on the Law given Israel.
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L
If you feel this way, maybe you aught not respond.
I ask because I want to know to what extent the law is to be kept and who keeps it to those degrees, and where the line is drawn.
My personal thoughts; cliff notes there of, as it were, are as such.
Morality hasn't ever changed, theft, lying, sexual immorality, murder etc.
How we respond to a person who violates morality has, ie, we don't stone adulterers. (Although there should be punishment for wrecking a home and family.)
However there are many good examples as to how the law could and should apply to civil law; example, if an ox gores someone; while we don't generally keep oxen anymore many people keep viscious dogs that attack and kill, usually children. The example of the Biblical law could be applied.
I ask because I want to know to what extent the law is to be kept and who keeps it to those degrees, and where the line is drawn.
My personal thoughts; cliff notes there of, as it were, are as such.
Morality hasn't ever changed, theft, lying, sexual immorality, murder etc.
How we respond to a person who violates morality has, ie, we don't stone adulterers. (Although there should be punishment for wrecking a home and family.)
However there are many good examples as to how the law could and should apply to civil law; example, if an ox gores someone; while we don't generally keep oxen anymore many people keep viscious dogs that attack and kill, usually children. The example of the Biblical law could be applied.
If law pushers fail in one part of the 613, they fail the whole of the law, and stand condemned, so attempting to keep it in any part is foolish. Distinguishing between the law and the commandments may be a good idea, also
Paul didn't say we've been released from the ceremonial and civil laws -- he said: We've been released from the Law (the whole Law).
Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
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There is so much confusion on this and related subjects. I don't have all the answers because I don't fully understand the Old and New Testaments. What I would like to humbly suggest is that when we see confusion and apparent contradictions there is an oppurtunity to increase our understanding. As many of us would say, there are no contradictions in the scriptures. However, when reading various blog articles etc. we see very weak arguments to explain away contradictions. Weak arguments set off alarm bells in my mind and inspire me to move forward by finding the proper reason for the apparent contradiction.
An example of an apparent contradiction in this thread is that Jesus said the 'law' must be abided by and yet he prevented the stoning to death of a woman that committed adultery. The Book of John provideds us with part of the answer to this question. However, the book of John isn't even required to understand what is going on. It's all in the Old Testament as well. I've run out of time and will provide some quotes from scripture later.
An example of an apparent contradiction in this thread is that Jesus said the 'law' must be abided by and yet he prevented the stoning to death of a woman that committed adultery. The Book of John provideds us with part of the answer to this question. However, the book of John isn't even required to understand what is going on. It's all in the Old Testament as well. I've run out of time and will provide some quotes from scripture later.
Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law, and the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good, which are the moral laws, laws of love.
Which love works no ill towards their neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Paul said charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and charity is not selfish, not arrogant, does not behave itself unseemingly, does not think an evil thought, does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth to abstain from sin by the Spirit by hating sin, and not wanting sin, and only goes by their needs, and not their wants, and helps people with their needs if possible.
If a person does not have charity then their faith does not count, and if they go by their wants then they fall victim to the love of money is the root of all evil, for it neglects the poor and needy.
So we have to live up to the law, which we can by the Spirit, for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit, and not the ways of the flesh.
Which a person led of the Spirit is not under the law, because their sins are forgiven, and they are abstaining from sins, therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.
Not we are not under the law claiming to be a Christian, but we are not under the law led of the Spirit.
Which a Spirit led life will not sin, so if you sin, or holding unto sin, then you are not led of the Spirit, then you are under the law until you repent of it not wanting it, and the Lord knows whether you mean it or not, and whether you let it go, or holding unto it.
But there are many not led of the Spirit holding unto sin, for they have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, from such turn away, and they are ever learning but never able to come to the truth, and are lover of pleasures, worldliness, more than lovers of God.
Which we hear of people saying they cannot abstain from sin, but they still think they are right with God, but then they are not led of the Spirit for they are holding unto sin, for they say they cannot abstain from sin.
God says turn away from them, and the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, for this is what seals the saints, and how they are led of the Spirit, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity, and awake to righteousness, and sin not, but some do not have the knowledge of God.
Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way nailing them to His cross for they were contrary to us, because they had no bearing on spiritual salvation, so let no person judge you, tell you to keep them.
We have to obey the law concerning the laws of love, moral laws, which is why Jesus told the rich man to keep the 6 commandments that have to do with loving people, and to sell all his things that were not a necessity, and give to the poor, for love is the fulfilling of the law.
You are not under the law if you are led of the Spirit, and in this time in human history there are many hypocrites, as also tells the Bible, but they think they are led of the Spirit with their relaxed viewpoint of being a Christian.
Which love works no ill towards their neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Paul said charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and charity is not selfish, not arrogant, does not behave itself unseemingly, does not think an evil thought, does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth to abstain from sin by the Spirit by hating sin, and not wanting sin, and only goes by their needs, and not their wants, and helps people with their needs if possible.
If a person does not have charity then their faith does not count, and if they go by their wants then they fall victim to the love of money is the root of all evil, for it neglects the poor and needy.
So we have to live up to the law, which we can by the Spirit, for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit, and not the ways of the flesh.
Which a person led of the Spirit is not under the law, because their sins are forgiven, and they are abstaining from sins, therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.
Not we are not under the law claiming to be a Christian, but we are not under the law led of the Spirit.
Which a Spirit led life will not sin, so if you sin, or holding unto sin, then you are not led of the Spirit, then you are under the law until you repent of it not wanting it, and the Lord knows whether you mean it or not, and whether you let it go, or holding unto it.
But there are many not led of the Spirit holding unto sin, for they have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, from such turn away, and they are ever learning but never able to come to the truth, and are lover of pleasures, worldliness, more than lovers of God.
Which we hear of people saying they cannot abstain from sin, but they still think they are right with God, but then they are not led of the Spirit for they are holding unto sin, for they say they cannot abstain from sin.
God says turn away from them, and the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, for this is what seals the saints, and how they are led of the Spirit, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity, and awake to righteousness, and sin not, but some do not have the knowledge of God.
Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way nailing them to His cross for they were contrary to us, because they had no bearing on spiritual salvation, so let no person judge you, tell you to keep them.
We have to obey the law concerning the laws of love, moral laws, which is why Jesus told the rich man to keep the 6 commandments that have to do with loving people, and to sell all his things that were not a necessity, and give to the poor, for love is the fulfilling of the law.
You are not under the law if you are led of the Spirit, and in this time in human history there are many hypocrites, as also tells the Bible, but they think they are led of the Spirit with their relaxed viewpoint of being a Christian.
Well now, if you ask yourself just why Christ (He was the lawgiver) instituted each of the commands and ordinances we will have a better understanding on which still apply. Like Blik said the dietary ordinances were for our good health. Has the human body changed? There were laws against separating the bran and germ from grains. God knew it was healthier for us to eat the whole grain.
Some of our laws reflect the OT, yes. Not enough of them though. More were based on the Magna Carta, which was loosely based on the Hammurabi Code. My first book addresses what a government based on the OT model could be like. I think we will see it in the MK.
Some of our laws reflect the OT, yes. Not enough of them though. More were based on the Magna Carta, which was loosely based on the Hammurabi Code. My first book addresses what a government based on the OT model could be like. I think we will see it in the MK.
I agree, and so does the Bible .. e.g. James 2:10-11.
How do you do that, separate the "Law" and the "Commandments"? The Commandments, from the Decalogue onward, are a big part of the Law are they not?
Thanks!
~Deut
.. e.g. James 2:10-11.How do you do that, separate the "Law" and the "Commandments"? The Commandments, from the Decalogue onward, are a big part of the Law are they not?
Thanks!
~Deut
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Jesus shed his blood to free us from the law. Many of those who followed the law became prideful and died in there sins.
I would say to anyone it's a dangerous decision to try to keep any part of the law.
I don't believe there are extra credits or kudos for anyone going down the law road.
The law is suppose to be hidden in the heart and not a outward appearance of a inward belief. It cannot save you nor make you righteous.
How could something perfect be maintained perfectly by failable man? What purpose does it serve to place a burden where freedom should be?
Guess I just don't understand. 😢😢😢😢😢
Wonder if it would be reaching to far to say that those who believe in Christ and find it mandatory to keep the law have a shallow belief in the works of Christ or .....are not aware that they present the death of Christ as vain.
Please no offence to anyone here intended....just expressing my thoughts......alot of blood has been spilled for this very issue.
I would say to anyone it's a dangerous decision to try to keep any part of the law.
I don't believe there are extra credits or kudos for anyone going down the law road.
The law is suppose to be hidden in the heart and not a outward appearance of a inward belief. It cannot save you nor make you righteous.
How could something perfect be maintained perfectly by failable man? What purpose does it serve to place a burden where freedom should be?
Guess I just don't understand. 😢😢😢😢😢
Wonder if it would be reaching to far to say that those who believe in Christ and find it mandatory to keep the law have a shallow belief in the works of Christ or .....are not aware that they present the death of Christ as vain.
Please no offence to anyone here intended....just expressing my thoughts......alot of blood has been spilled for this very issue.
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