Is there ANYBODY ...OUT THERE!!!

Umm... Not sure you read correctly. Those that believe the 1st 5, which would certainly include my wife, ARE Brethren.

But certainly glad you're my sister!

Since becoming a born again Child of God, some 25 yrs. ago, I have come to understand 1 overriding principle. There isn't a Christian I know, including my wife and children, that believe exactly as I believe, on every doctrine or issue.

So with that in mind, I'd like to see if there is indeed ANYBODY out there that believes everything I do. Or at least someone who comes close. I'm not going to give their doctrinal names.

Here are the fundamentals that I believe every Christian MUST believe and agree on to be considered my brother or sister in the Lord:

1. We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior.

2. Jesus Christ IS that Savior. The ONLY Savior.

3. Jesus IS God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a virgin.

4. Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.

5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )

Issues that are probably necessary, but won't discount that person could be my Brethren if they believe differently, because not absolutely certain is vital:

6. The Trinity in the sense that God is 3 distinct persons. ( denying Jesus is God means not a Christian however )

7. Absolutely no works to attain or maintain Salvation.

8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )

9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.

10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.

Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.

11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.

12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)

13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.

14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.

15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.

16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.

17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION

18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.

19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.

20 Christ's return is imminent.

There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.

So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE

How do you eternal security people handle Heb 6? Do you take these words literally or do you allegorize them away?

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

How do you eternal security people handle Heb 6? Do you take these words literally or do you allegorize them away?

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

How do you eternal security people handle Heb 6? Do you take these words literally or do you allegorize them away?

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

If (it is possible) they fall away, they never can be renewed.

If salvation can be lost Unlike in the law where you can be re saved, Heb 6 is telling you clearly Your lost forever.

So if we re-order the wording we can make it work?

For those who were once enlightened and tasted the powers of the age to come (our age), to fall away to be renewed again. Thus, salvation for them was lost.

let me take a shot at this.
If you have tasted of Jesus, it not possible to walk away.
The 12 new this when Jesus asked, will you leave me also.
I have stated where would I go.
The key to Hebrew 6 is have you ever tasted of the lord. For you obviously not.

We could, but that would change the meaning of the passage, hebrews is written for those who were being pried to return to law and leave the church, we need to leave it in that context.

Correct so how is it you think they couldn't lose their salvation???

Remember Jesus said, "a house divided against itself cannot stand?" He didn't come to make peace but to bring a sword. He would turn Jew against Jew, brother against brother, a son against his father, etc. There would be two camps, those who came to accept Jesus as Messiah and those who rejected Him in favor of keeping the Law. Christ's wrath would be poured out on the latter group using the Romans as His instrument to carry it out. In Mat 13 Jesus calls these two groups "the Wheat and the Tares."

let me take a shot at this.
If you have tasted of Jesus, it not possible to walk away.
The 12 new this when Jesus asked, will you leave me also.
I have stated where would I go.
The key to Hebrew 6 is have you ever tasted of the lord. For you obviously not.

View attachment 192785


5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )

[this one seems debatable in that Christ said: “No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.” John 10-18
Still.........just saying ]

8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )

[ been there, had that argument ]

11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.

[been there, had that argument]

14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.

[no real opinion one way or the other...not important to me]

15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.

[been there, had that argument]

16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.

[been there, had that argument]

19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.

[IF you are counting the rapture that occurred when Christ gave up the Spirit.......ok, otherwise, when Christ returns again.........IT IS OVER]

Since becoming a born again Child of God, some 25 yrs. ago, I have come to understand 1 overriding principle. There isn't a Christian I know, including my wife and children, that believe exactly as I believe, on every doctrine or issue.

So with that in mind, I'd like to see if there is indeed ANYBODY out there that believes everything I do. Or at least someone who comes close. I'm not going to give their doctrinal names.

Here are the fundamentals that I believe every Christian MUST believe and agree on to be considered my brother or sister in the Lord:

1. We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior.

2. Jesus Christ IS that Savior. The ONLY Savior.

3. Jesus IS God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a virgin.

4. Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.

5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )

Issues that are probably necessary, but won't discount that person could be my Brethren if they believe differently, because not absolutely certain is vital:

6. The Trinity in the sense that God is 3 distinct persons. ( denying Jesus is God means not a Christian however )

7. Absolutely no works to attain or maintain Salvation.

8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )

9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.

10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.

Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.

11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.

12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)

13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.

14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.

15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.

16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.

17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION

18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.

19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.

20 Christ's return is imminent.

There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.

So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE

1 John 2:19 King James Version (KJV)

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Hi, I really enjoyed reading your discussion forum. I thought that this was a really interesting study. I do believe in about 15-20 of the issues listed myself. I do have questions about some of them, but that is probably because of the way that they are worded, but I am pretty sure those are true as well. I have actually been taught in the church as well as bible study, and Sunday school classes about these issues myself, and it was great to actually get a review from here of what I have been learning throughout my life as a Christian. So thank you again for this again and God bless!

I didn’t see this as a Calvinist view. I took it as God chooses us because we’re in His Son because we believed the gospel of His Son. I also believe that God gives everyone a degree of faith to believe the gospel. Some believe, some reject.

Thank you for your kind words sister.

Lot of disagreements from this list. My comments in blue.

Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.

11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.

Yes it did (Mt 21:23). Apostate Israel "fell away" during the great tribulation of 66-70 AD and the church (made up of Jews and Gentiles) replaced apostate Israel as God's witnesses on earth.

12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)

Like any literary work, the Bible uses a lot of metaphors and figures of speech. Knowing when they are in use is key to understanding. The best way is to see how they are used in the OT.

13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.

Yes. Both are in the spiritual realm where we will exist eternally.

14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.

Yes, those you mention in Gen 6 were angels procreating with human women. Any hybrid race was wiped out in the Flood. Those being spoken of in 2 Pet 3 and Jude were first century apostate Jews most of whom were wiped out in the great tribulation of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.

Literal? Real yes, but He is reigning now with us. He is not sitting on some earthly throne and there is no third temple to be built in Jerusalem. Christ Himself makes this abundantly clear in multiple passages. He destroyed the 2nd temple, He rebuilt it in 3 days. He sits at the right hand of the Father. He rules over the nations with a rod of iron. His kingdom came without observation. His kingdom is within us. He ushered in the new age, the age we are now in - the Messianic Age. This is all spiritual.

16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.

Yes, spiritually speaking.

17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION

18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.

19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.

Define Tribulation. Define rapture. Both were 1st century events.

20 Christ's return is imminent.

It was imminent. As He said, everything would come to that generation. The generation living when He made those comments. If you look at the literal words used in Mt 24, you will see that it was the PRESENCE (parousia) of Christ which was to return, as lightening. His return was real but it was spiritual. If you didn't know the signs, you would miss it. If you weren't watching, you would miss it. A literal physical return and reign in a temple nobody would miss. Christ makes clear many will "fall asleep" or not have enough oil in their lamps, etc. Others will not remain sober and miss it.

The apostles taught Christ's return was imminent to them in their days. Paul promised the Thessalonians rest from their torments. He didn't promise rest to people thousands of years later. In Revelation multiple times Christ was to come quickly. All the signs in Mt 24 were first century signs and all happened in the first century. There were no signs given applicable to our times. There is no long time lapse mentioned. In Mt 3, John says the ax was already at "laid at the root of the trees." The Baptist asks the religious leaders who came out of Jerusalem who told them to flee the wrath to come. This was the wrath that came within 1 generation of Christ's words, in 70 AD, almost exactly 40 years from when He said it.

There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.

So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE

Not so,read Romans 11. Israel is still the apple of God's eye. They have not been replaced by the church.