Difference between "normal sinners" and "toxic people" ?

As those in Christ, I feel we are called to be merciful and forgiving to all, reconciling ourselves to others and that division in the body of Christ is unacceptable.

But the question arises in my mind:
When is it okay to keep people at a distance, even other believers? We must forgive, but at what point can we say we shouldn't tolerate manipulation, control or guilt trips? At what point is it okay to not speak to someone for a while? Or even, indefinitely? This question I ask regarding believers and unbelievers alike.

What if someone who is a believer sets a bad example for you with their spiritual conduct? What if that same person also eats up a lot of your time with things of the world? What if you feel that person is holding you back a bit? What if they use mind games, guilt trips and manipulation on you? Does anyone struggle with friends or family like this? Even believing family or friends?

In Genesis 13 we see Lot and Abram in conflict, so they went their own ways.

I see no biblical mandate that says you must perpetually stay in contact with someone who is actively unhealthy for you. Rather i see where we are to go out of our way to help and work things out. But that doesn't mean if you're being dragged down you need to continue.
And forgiveness does not equate to ignoring mistreatment and allowing it to continue. You can be gracious and forgive, yet be wise and get away. Both wisdom and graciousness are important. It's a matter of knowing when to employ which.

We also see Paul stating that some should be removed from churches and be cast to the wolves. Of course this is a final action when nothing else has worked to dissuade people from willful sin, but it still shows a precedent that involves separating from believers.

It could be said not casting pearls before swine could suggest a separation as well, at least as one possible option.

The traditional 'Christians are punching bags' concept so commonly taught is one i never believed in.

What a good and valid question. I will insert myself before answering here. I think first we go to Him. He tells us to keep our peace and let Him take care of it, Exodus 14:14. If ppl are transparently not walking the walk, not extending love or mercy, or only to ones that seem worthy, pray for them and just carry on in our space, leave that kind of contradiction to itself. I think we just be real and carry on loving best we can as we would with anyone. Definitely, do not compromise who we are in Him. We, however, should elevate who we choose to hang out with not because we are better but because we want to do better, lol. I have a friend who is such a good friend, a real heart for servatude. If you want to be a part of her life, you have to be ready to give back. She gives away so much of her time to serve others.

My point of going on about her is to make this clear... Is it a good thing to be circumspect when it involves using discernment wisely? It seems less noble when are saying someone is less than us. But if we are just acknowledging others are better than us, it seems humble and a wise hope for honorable change.

I would also take this into consideration...Am I a blessing to his or her faith. Am I bringing to or taking from the table.. that matters in determining the value of a friendship as well, eh?

Hey I hear you will have a think on this.maybe you thinking of narcisstic people?

When we have toxins in our body what takes them out the liver...but also we can do a detox diet or fast and be healthy again.

Also Jesus came across these people called Pharisees and they were always trying to trip him up while all the time acting holier than thou. JEsus didnt willingly hang round them he had his own friends.

And corinthians tells us not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. Maybe check you not yoked with anyone,and if does come to it, break it off. You can still be civil with them but go your separate ways nothing is worse than being dragged astray by someone who does not want to follow Jesus.

Sometimes my mind goes back to "But I tell you not to resist the evil person. Instead, whoever shall strike you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. " Matthew 5:39

I think, if someone has enough biblical knowledge, they could learn how to throw a bible at you to make you feel as if you are wrong in how you choose to - or not to - engage with them. Even if you are not technically wrong.

Although, it is all about how you respond to someone's sin. You should not give a harsh answer, of course. But there is such thing as someone focusing too much on their carnal desire, making control or the attention of man an idol. Technically, both parties can be in sin. Sin truly *can* encompass a man's being that much. There isn't always a right person, and a wrong person. Usually, both parties are in sin.

Yes, it is sin to not associate with one due to feeling they are "less than". I think it is a different thing to want to avoid interactions with a specific person due to there being real risks for your spiritual growth. If you know something can make you sin, it is best to go away from that thing and only tackle it head on for the glory of God once Jesus has given you the discipline and sanctification necessary to no longer react sinfully. He can and *will* give that discipline to those who desire it because they want to glorify God.

This this this.

Im sick and tired of this concept. And people already know not to test me.

Be polite, but dont let anyone bully you. Be loving, but dont let anyone abuse you

I do not know if the person I am speaking of is a narcissist, and I definitely think it would be a grievous evil to attribute a serious personality disorder to one publicly without knowing for sure, but I appreciate your insight and sensitivity.

The Pharisees were pretty unpleasant people, and in my opinion, manipulative also.

I am wondering in 2 Corinthians 6 if being "unequally yoked" is referred to in a generic relational context. It is always used in reference to marital or "eros" - not "agape" love, but if I apply that to

Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.” 1 cor 15:33

it makes sense.

It is a tough situation. I guess it all depends on each person's obedience to Jesus!

Thank you.

It is encouraged to remain at arms'length, even away from any who after being made aware of certain error persist and are continuing in rebellion to God……..treat them as non-believers. Pray for them, love them, but do not participate in what they do.

Once a pattern of manipulation or controlling is discovered, one should politely walk away, regardless. There was a time before the set time for the crucifixion, when Christ walked away from his enemies. There were also times when He limited His ministry to Galilee, and went up to Jerusalem by stealth, thus avoiding His detractors and enemies.

To me, normal sinners (most of us) are people with a conscience. We all screw-up, but usually try to do better. A toxic sinner is one who is deliberate, they have no conscience or desire to correct themselves, they selfishly don't care who they offend. With toxic people, its best to use discernment and not open yourself up to be debased by their words, actions, or life-style. If we follow someone's bad example or allow ourselves to be manipulated by them, it says more about us then it does about them... jmo

Amos 3:3

Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

Hey Magenta. Is that your real hair? That must be your favorite color. I see it in your art work often. beautiful designs.

Welcome to CC! I commend you for an excellent question to prompt thought and discussion. I'll respond further in a bit.

Jesus addresses this in Matthew 18:
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

The key that many people miss with regard to so-called "toxic people" is showing their sin to them. If you just stew in resentment about someone's behaviour, you have no grounds on which to exclude them from your life. If, in contrast, you clearly explain what it is they are doing that hurts you (with backup and the support of the Church, as an escalating response), and they don't change, you have solid footing on which to withdraw fellowship.

What many people also miss is the idea of treating people as pagans or tax collectors: you don't expect Christian behaviour from non-Christians, and instead you share the gospel (repent and believe in Jesus) with them as you have opportunity. You don't let them have free access to your life.

As to manipulation (etc.), Christians have no obligation to put up with other people's c**p. Identify it, call it out, and refuse to comply. People will get the message and change their ways, or they won't, and you withdraw from them.

Henry Cloud and John Townsend did a great job with their book Boundaries. It addresses many related concepts and gives sound biblically-based strategies for handling such situations.

pretty much in agreement except for the 'saying more about us'..

people who fit the toxic or no conscience profile, are adept at choosing who to practice their arts on

I used to think if a person said they were a Christian, they actually were a Christian

it was a little hard reaching all the knives in my back from those good Christians

sometimes people are manipulated through love and trust and not because they are stupid (I know you didn't say stupid)

actually, Christians are good marks because they are seen in a certain light and too many have the idea we are just supposed to be taking it and just cannot get our fill of being 'used'

hard lessons to learn

Normal people act nomal and toxic people criticize them