Not By Works

Of course I have departed from lawlessness.

Do you realize what you're claiming here? You are implying that you no longer sin.

Just for clarification; Do you, or do you not continue to sin?

Yes or no please.

You contradicted yourself. If God has chosen to "pass over some" where are they going - New Jersey?

You are just trying to set traps

you are here to deceive

Do you realize what you're claiming here? You are implying that you no longer sin.

Just for clarification; Do you, or do you not continue to sin?

Yes or no please.

Your wasting your time bro. He will not answer you. He will claim your tryign to trap him as many others have.

Best just to let it rest.. Not give him an audience. He will twist everything you say..

You're absolutely right, EG. Just like many others, it's seems it's time to put him on the iggy list.

True. God has chosen, before the foundation of the world, to save anyone who will believe in Christ.



You contradicted yourself. If God has chosen to "pass over some" where are they going - New Jersey?



It actually would be unfair. And contradictory to God's very nature (see 2 Peter 3:9). To choose (sorry - "pass over") some for hell, without giving them a chance, is not the God of the Bible.

If Christ indeed died for the sins of the entire world (which Scripture clearly teaches He did) that means, ummm...the whole world! That means God's pardon is available to every single person.



I don't recall ever saying I don't need to "learn from man" (post please) but even if I did, my point would be that the Holy spirit is the one who interprets Scripture for believers (1 John 2:27). God certainly didn't make the plan of salvation complicated. Error creeps in when people take verses out of context - completely ignoring the totality of Scripture.

And if you ever saw my library, you wouldn't imply that I'm not a "reader".



Wow. And I mean WOW! You completely misinterpreted what I believe and have been saying.

Let me clarify so you cannot, in the future, claim I believe something that I do not.

I believe all men are wretched sinners, incapable of doing good (remember the "filthy rags" verse?) We are all lost and on our way to hell. We won't even seek God on our own. But God in His mercy, draws men to Himself through common grace. Meaning, He offers salvation through Christ's sacrifice on the cross, as a gift, to all people. How can He do this? Because the sin debt has been paid. Jesus died for the sins of the entire world.

But, a pardon is only as good as it's acceptance. One can choose to reject God's mercy. God has predestined to save anyone who will believe in Jesus for eternal life. Belief is the only requirement. (See John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; 11:25-27; 20:30-31).

Our good works, before or after conversion, have no bearing on our salvation. A Christian's good works justify us before men, not God, and are the basis for rewards, or lack of, at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Period.



"But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many." (Romans 5:15)

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. " (Romans 6:23)

"Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” (John 4:10)

"He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?" (Romans 8:32)

"Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!" (2 Corinthians 9:15)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God:" (Ephesians 2:8)

Clear enough?

Now, you've danced around this long enough, and I would simply like a yes or no answer:

Are there babies in hell?

Oh, for goodness sake! I'm simply looking for an honest answer!

How hard is it to say, "Yes, I still sin" or "No, I do not"?

The reason you won't clarify is you don't want to admit that you still sin. Because if you do, you're whole "obedience is required" house of cards comes tumbling down.

Like I said, if you were interested in honesty, or edification, you would respond to what I said, and the scriptures posted.

But you are here to be honest.

True. God has chosen, before the foundation of the world, to save anyone who will believe in Christ.



You contradicted yourself. If God has chosen to "pass over some" where are they going - New Jersey?



It actually would be unfair. And contradictory to God's very nature (see 2 Peter 3:9). To choose (sorry - "pass over") some for hell, without giving them a chance, is not the God of the Bible.

If Christ indeed died for the sins of the entire world (which Scripture clearly teaches He did) that means, ummm...the whole world! That means God's pardon is available to every single person.



I don't recall ever saying I don't need to "learn from man" (post please) but even if I did, my point would be that the Holy spirit is the one who interprets Scripture for believers (1 John 2:27). God certainly didn't make the plan of salvation complicated. Error creeps in when people take verses out of context - completely ignoring the totality of Scripture.

And if you ever saw my library, you wouldn't imply that I'm not a "reader".



Wow. And I mean WOW! You completely misinterpreted what I believe and have been saying.

Let me clarify so you cannot, in the future, claim I believe something that I do not.

I believe all men are wretched sinners, incapable of doing good (remember the "filthy rags" verse?) We are all lost and on our way to hell. We won't even seek God on our own. But God in His mercy, draws men to Himself through common grace. Meaning, He offers salvation through Christ's sacrifice on the cross, as a gift, to all people. How can He do this? Because the sin debt has been paid. Jesus died for the sins of the entire world.

But, a pardon is only as good as it's acceptance. One can choose to reject God's mercy. God has predestined to save anyone who will believe in Jesus for eternal life. Belief is the only requirement. (See John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; 11:25-27; 20:30-31).

Our good works, before or after conversion, have no bearing on our salvation. A Christian's good works justify us before men, not God, and are the basis for rewards, or lack of, at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Period.



"But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many." (Romans 5:15)

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. " (Romans 6:23)

"Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” (John 4:10)

"He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?" (Romans 8:32)

"Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!" (2 Corinthians 9:15)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God:" (Ephesians 2:8)

Clear enough?

Now, you've danced around this long enough, and I would simply like a yes or no answer:

Are there babies in hell?

You do realize that Gentiles were never under the Law. We never had it.

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves." (Romans 2:24).

The Law was a temporary covenant given only to the Jews until the "seed" (Christ) should come to whom the promise was made.

God chose all who will be in heaven, it's called the doctrine of election. He is Sovereign in election and according to his purpose it is done.

The thing is you're a Romans 9:20 man and don't like this. Calvinists don't believe God chose any for hell, but we do know he has according to his purpose passed over some. But to you this is unfair, and you're not in the least bit afraid to accuse God of this being unfair unless he succumbs to your whims and ideology of what is fair. That and yo'll just keep repeating the straw man accusation you've given above.

What have you read in attempt to enhance your understanding of Scripture? (can't wait for this answer!) You really should do some reading and advance off of your poorly constructed verse-ology to some proper exegetical and contextual interpretation. I'd suggest some reading, but given your behavior thus far, and your several false accusations certainly you'd just ridicule the effort and brag on yourself about not needing "to learn from man" which by the way is unBiblical as well.

Concerning babies the LORD of all the earth will do what is right, he always does, even when he Sovereignly decrees to exercise only justice on some and reprobate them via passing over them and giving them up to their own evil desires. You have a problem with this, even in the face of Scripture that shows these truths to you.

I was once in your camp, held your errant beliefs then by God's grace looked at all the Scripture concerning these things and bowed my knees to our Sovereign and Holy God. The Potter has full right to do as he wills with the clay, he does not bow to our logic or rules of what we deem fair.

While you're on here fighting the works salvationists, you in essence are one yourself and I will explain:

The mere fact that you believe God chose you because of your behavior in choosing him by your pure love for God and coming to him not like a robot but out of your own goodness for him is evidence of this fact. That is not grace, it is merit. No one is saved via human decision, on this Scripture is clear yet you continue to teach this, going along as if you've turned a blind eye to this Biblical truth. God chooses those whom he wills to save based on not one thing they have ever done, whether good or bad that his purpose of election might stand. It is therefore Soli Deo Gloria.

Yet you're not able to believe this because you can't get past this false notion that you simply received a gift. No, you received a reward for your behavior because in your gospel you have God looking down through time rewarding those who choose with eternal life. Therefore your gospel of salvation is not 100% salvation by God's grace.

Perhaps one day God will open your eyes to the truth of how he saves -- it had nothing to do with you choosing. God does as he wills with his creation, not all hear, not all are saved, which should cause us to stand in awe of God, in awe of his justice, mercy and grace.

Now, go ahead and get your last word in on this issue, I pray God opens your eyes to the truth, Ephesians 1:15-23.

You're absolutely right, EG. Just like many others, it's seems it's time to put him on the iggy list.

Yes, make sure you follow the example set by the Mainstream Preachers of His time.

#1. Choose your religious tradition over the Word's of the Christ whenever there is contradiction .

#2. Do not answer questions posed which bring your religious doctrines into question.

#3. Work to discredit anyone who would dare question your religious traditions which transgress the Holy Commandments of God.

#4. Silence, by any means available, anyone who promotes God's Word's over the religious traditions of the Land.

EG, is a master of these tactics and can advise how best to accomplish the above.

If it's ok, I'd like to address some of this.

First off, I don't believe there will be any children or babies in Hell. In fact, I think a large amount of the residents of Heaven will be children.
Matthew 19:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

That might be more literal than we think. Also, Paul says this:
Romans 7:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

The only time he could have been alive without the Law was when he was too young to understand it. So his sin as a child was not imputed to him. I think we are on safe ground saying Jesus's Blood covers children.

As to the larger issue of election, I have changed my position somewhat. Especially with the knowledge of hindsight looking back on my own life and God's loving care and direction He has shown me.

So a couple of questions and thoughts.

Since we know we had NOTHING to do with our physical birth, why would we think we had the tiniest bit to do, and yes I think that includes choosing Him, with our Spiritual Birth? We were dead. We need to contemplate that fact and not just give a nod to it. A dead person can do NOTHING but be dead.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God.

You rightly say that it is belief through faith that saves. However, where does that faith come from? I think the verse you cite in Ephesians gives us this answer;

Ephesians 2:8-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, AND THAT not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

The "and that" is the faith IN ADDITION to the Grace.

All of us need to examine WHY WE BELIEVE. We heard the Gospel. WE responded in belief. BUT WHY? Multitudes of others have heard yet they don't believe.

WE believe because God has GIVEN us the faith to believe. There is no other explanation without somehow taking credit or boasting as the verse in Ephesians points out. I fully admit in my own, human intellect this seems off, because in my human intellect I reason that if God gave only SOME people faith unto Salvation, it must follow that He didn't give others faith unto Salvation.

I think we'd all agree God knows the end from the beginning. There is nothing we will ever do that can surprise Him.

I think we'd all also agree that God formed us in the womb.

So picture God creating a person while knowing that person is doomed for destruction, or eternal life. If that is not the case, then He either didn't create all, or He doesn't know who are His until they choose.

EXTREMELY difficult for my 3 pound human brain to comprehend. So in the final analysis I think He has called me to love everyone, and spread His Gospel to ALL people and let HIM handle the rest.

Hi Preacher4truth, nice to know you are alive and well and forever proclaiming God's truth. Sometimes I find it beneficial to post a passage of scripture for those "like myself" who may have a "floccinaucinihilipilification moment", (meaning laziness of the bones); and miss the value of sharpening our "Sword", (the word of God),
myself being the primary offender.

Bless you brother.....

Ephesians1:9: "And He has 'made known to us the mystery of His will' according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ."

Epheasians1:3 -6
"Spiritual Blessings"
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4) For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5) He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6) to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One.

(Romans 8:28-30; 33-34)
28) And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29) For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30) And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.

33) Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34) Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us.

Definition: floccinaucinihilipilification; measure of worth or value.

maybe you should discuss the Scripture that you have been asked to before you criticize others for not doing so with you.

you did say something about being honest, right?

honest people address what others ask them, not ignore and/or attack them for asking.

Since we know we had NOTHING to do with our physical birth, why would we think we had the tiniest bit to do, and yes I think that includes choosing Him, with our Spiritual Birth? We were dead. We need to contemplate that fact and not just give a nod to it. A dead person can do NOTHING but be dead.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God.

Hey bro, he is not worth it. He just proved his true function by not answering budmand question (his excuse was budman was fishing) yet judgng Budman of not bein ghonest and refusing to answer his question.

He reminds me of a person who cherishes the fight,, He loves it, Proven by what he does.. Again, I wish we all just would stop responding to him..