Not By Works

God commands us to abide in Him. I trust in God also first and foremost.
. . .

And I am more obedient today, than 27 years ago. Is that not "Growing in the Lord"? And shall I not learn obedience from the things I suffer like He learned obedience from the things He suffered? Am I not to suffer with Him?

NOW I see what you are doing wrong with your Postings. You put your COMMENT INSIDE THE QUOTED TEXT, when YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PUT IT BELOW, AFTER the {/QUOTE}. PLEASE CORRECTION THAT PROBLEM NEXT TIME.

Now addressing your remarks: I DID NOT YELL AT YOU AT ANY TIME. When I took TYPING in High School in 1966, typing in ALL CAPS, was JUST FOR EMPHASIS. As far as I am concerned, that is way it should be. I don't have a Face Book Account, and NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL. So my CAPS, are Nothing more than EMPHASIS, whether in BOLD or STANDARD. I am TOO old, to learn New Tricks, and do not care what FACE BOOK calls their ALL CAPS RULES.

Here is what I CALL YELLING, putting it ALL in #26 size fronts, like this: NEVER AGAIN!
Anything less is just for EMPHASIS. Oh, just so you know, the WARNING is for real, when you criticize our beliefs with LIES.

Bill thanks for the thoughtful reply. Let me ask you this. How do you understand the status of those Christians and their Pastors that support abortion, homosexual lifestyles, adultery, greed, who are engaged in the world and its pleasures, who refused to be baptized, etc? These people are LIVING in rebellion to the Lord. Can we really having a true and saving faith and live in rebellion to the Lord?

Yet John said whoever claims to be part of the church and now rejects Christ (because he has shipwreched his faith) has never been part of the church, because of they had they NEVER would have left.

The fact is, Jesus said the moment a person is in an ACTIVE state of believe, they are given the promise they WILL NEVER DIE and that they HAVE eternal life.

You can not have eternal life if it can be lost. That is called CONDITIONAL LIFE

Regarding the underlined and bolded above;

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?

Studyman: "And I am more obedient today, than 27 years ago. Is that not "Growing in the Lord"?

Hi Studyman, stop with the bragging about how wonderful and obedient you are and how you have suffered so. Listen forum "never follow someone who does not exhibit true humility", why?, because their actions and words reveal they are in it for self satisfaction.

Watch for the signs; short definition of humility; real humility builds up, false humility tears down; Quote: "when there is a problem and the results aren't good; a humble leader looks in the mirror, not out the window."

The Jordan River where John baptized Jesus and so began the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ.

Examples of true Christian humility; He left his heavenly abode and tabernacled among men.
Jesus of Nazareth King of Kings and Lord of Lords and yet He humbled Himself and became a servant for you and I; He came not to be served but to serve and give His life as a ransom for many." (Matt20:28).

"Never follow anyone who does not exhibit signs of "True Humility", if you do your in for a rude awakening.

Hebrews12:2
"fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."

2Corinthians8:9
"For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you through His poverty might become rich."

1Samuel16:7
"The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Matthew20:28
"just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

Romans12:10
"Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Outdo yourselves in honoring one another."

Philippians2:3
"Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;"

="TruthTalk, post: 3798972, member: 258872"]Studyman: "And I am more obedient today, than 27 years ago. Is that not "Growing in the Lord"?

Hi Studyman, stop with the bragging about how wonderful and obedient you are and how you have suffered so. Listen forum "never follow someone who does not exhibit true humility", why?, because their actions and words reveal they are in it for self satisfaction.

I think that no one should follow your FALSE HUMILITY and FALSE DOCTRINES.

You are the ones who should HUMBLY ACCEPT the WORD that is planted in you, which can SAVE you.

I feel exactly the same way about you, word for word. This same disagreement was had between the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, and Jesus and Paul as well.

Paul used the examples set forth in the Law and Prophets, as did the Christ, to show the difference between what the Word of God which became Flesh taught, and what the Mainstream Preachers of His time taught. In this way they exposed what was more important to them, their religion and religious tradition, or the Word of God.

For those who are interested in "proving that perfect Will of God" this was helpful and beneficial. But for those who were only interested in justifying their man made traditions which transgressed God's Commandments, not so much. They worked to silence anyone who would expose their religious traditions as from man and not from God.

Truly there is nothing new under the sun.

James said if we break even one command. Our spiritual life has no greater or lesser sins. God seperated that some sins affect SOCIETY greater thus gave GREATER temporal punishments for those sins. But think about it Adam and Eve ate a furit off of a tree. And look at the resulting death to mankind and the earth.

And once again, please stop with your false accusations against me, I am not missing that point. I have said OVER AND OVER, TRUE FAITH is ALWAYS accompanied by TRUE WORKS.

So lie about me one more time why dont you!!



People overcome their sin because they KNOW they are forgiven, and they KNOW they aot kicked out of the family. And they KNOW God is going to do all he can to help them overcome that sin.
This gratitude is what KEEPS us focused on the spirit. And NOT focused on our sins.

I have seen it your way and all I saw was failure people giving up. People saying forget it. I can not live up to the standard no matter how hard I try.

Of course. Thats the point, You can not live up to Gods perfect standard. Thats why you ALWAYS need grace. So your left with continuing to trust Christ. Or lie to yourself and God and water down Gods law to a point you can live and fulfill it. Which sadly is what most people do!



Take your calvin glasses off dude. Not everyone who believes in grace believes in a lack of free will. Just like not everyone who preaches works follows arminian.

Just sit down, and listen to people. And you may learn something about them you never knew before.

God promised he would do it. It is his character and his reputation we are talking about here. Not mine. When I do stuff by my own power I fail. When I do it by Gods power I see victory. Not my vitory. But Gods.
It is not that I do not have free will. IT IS THAT I WOULD NEVER WANT TO RETURN TO WHAt I WAS BEFORE. Those who do that, as john said, were NEVER SAVED.

Ok I am done, How can you stand there and say you obey God when you continue to bear false witness against other people. You do realise that bearing false witness is a sin do you not? Yet you time after time after time bear false witness against others.

I have never, nor will I ever do what you claim here. This is a bold faced lie. Based on the fact you refuse to listen to people. You think you know it all. You think you now them, well news flash. You do not.

1. I demand an appology for your lies against me
2. If you refuse. I will forgive you ( I am not like the person you want God to be) but I will not respond to you ever again, because you have PROVEN to be untrustworthy, and a habitual liar.

Do you not know. You scream at me saying I am trying to excuse sin and say it is ok to live in sin (which is a lie) yet here you are HABITUALLY bearing false witness against me. According to your OWN theology. That makes you in danger of losing salvation.

You need to take a deep hard look inside dude.. Because you are in serious denial

This is the battle from the very beginning. On one hand you have religious man who creates their own path to eternity, the broad path. And on the other hand you have those men who understand how wicked our minds are and that the only cure is completely submit to the Word of God which became Flesh. The "many" has run roughshod over the few since Cain killed Abel, and the Congregation of the Lord wanted to stone Caleb.

Truly there is not New Thing under the sun.

There is no contradiction between Paul and James. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. We cannot dissect good works from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18) So the not saved by "these" works (works of the law) but saved by "those" works (good works) argument is bogus.

False, it does not hold the KJV usage of 'of', it is a different of, in the sense that in the KJV it implies that Christ has faith whilst the YLT implies that Christ is the method by which we obtain faith...sort of Calvinistic, really (I do respect a lot of Calvinism, to be up front).

Anyway, your gnat-straining is rather obvious, to me at least, but I feel this may stand as a good lesson for others. Thanks, "friend"

If we make our spirit or the Spirit heard my friend we are in affect teaching.
Amen!
But it is through Faith which is through HIM we both will and work HIS good pleasure.

I was with you till the last sentence.
How is it a bogus argument to say our salvation is maintained by "those" works when you yourself quoted Jesus commandment to help our neighbor?

What if I Continually reject helping my neighbor...
I Continually reject obeying Jesus' commands...
Am I still saved even though I pay no heed to God?

I'm glad your more obedien than you were 27 years ago.

However one does have to say being more obedient than you were is not something necessarily to boast about (and I know you are not a fan of boasting one's self as you are seeking the praise of men) if one is being obedient to the wrong things.

Just like those who you keep bringing up. Those who never knew Jesus because they practice lawlessness.

From beginning “have been saved through faith” (Ephesians 2:8) to end “receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls” (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not obtained or maintained by works. To say that you are born again, yet you continually reject helping your neighbor, obeying Jesus commands, and pay no heed to God whatsoever is an oxymoron. All genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful.

John said that people who lose faith (antichrists) were never saved, period.

Why do you argue against John?

The bible says in the last days people will depart from the faith. I am witnessing this today. My country used to be god fearing, myu country has departed from the faith, in fact, the world is departing. Churches who used to thrive and be leaders in comminities, I see empty, many have for sale signs up. Or some non denomination church who took over their building (not all of them are bad. Some are very good) but even they are small and almost inconsequential in the grand scheme

God said I HAVE ETERNAL LIFE

Either I HAVE ETERNAL life Or God lied.

CONDITIONAL LIFE does NOT EQUAL ETERNAL LIFE

Stop trying to make them equal.