Not By Works

Alright bill , someone finally has asked the right question ! Let me think about how best to present it to you . We can do it here , start as new thread , or I can email it to you . What do you prefer ?

Amen! In regards to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul clearly explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the Sabbath was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the context, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer/active participant in the Hebrew community of believers who has committed apostasy by renouncing his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Jesus Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

In my devotion this morning something which stood out: "Mankind has lost the perspective on eternity." It is not defined by works but by the gift of salvation to all mankind through the love and mercy of God Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth. Why would any human being believe they could ever do enough "works" to enter into eternity with such a wonderful God. We are but dirt and rags.

Amen on Hebrews 11: i think that makes, not conflicts with what i say. When we are committed to actually listen to the Holy Spirit He leads us to act faithfully. But as a part of the book, i looked at Christian behavior based on a variety of surveys of Christians; you would be surprised. We are under the guidance of Holy Spirit which leads us to keep the law (for example i am sure you would agree we are not to murder people). Remember that Jesus himself gave us the two greatest commandments which sum up the law and the prophets. So while we are not under the letter of the law, we are to follow the Holy Spirit which also leads us to keep the moral law for in it we love our brother and sister and God.

I will answer when i return. The short answer is God does not lie. The long answer is we must receive God's promises through faith,

there isnt one verse which speaks of the loss of salvation to someone God has saved in context😏

you may worship a god that fails or forsakes His own


i worship God
who will not lose even one of His own

spot on

Heb 11 does conflict ehat you say

Heb 11, all those people had true saving faith and they ALL worked.

Many of them also commited some prety grace sins also.. Yet God still not only did not take his salvation from them, He still put them in the faith hall of fame.

The law requires perfection (as moses and paul put it, Whoever does not obey every word) or imposes a curse, that curse is death.

If your going to try to work at saving yourself. You better hope you have fulfilled the law (PS You Already failed) because if not, the law will condemn you where you stand, no matter how much you think you are walking in Christ.

God does not water his law down. He demands perfection. He is also the only one who ever attained that status, which is why HE died on the cross. So YOU and I could be saved.

Will you allow him to save you, or continue to try to save yourself?

Hebrews 12:6-8
6 For the Lord disciplines those he loves,
and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.”
7 As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Who ever heard of a child who is never disciplined by its father? 8 If God doesn’t discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children at all.

I have posted the above on the assumption of your response to EG that HS chastens his children which to you is a human metaphor.

If I'm wrong please correct me.
Yes we have a choice to follow. We are not robots and God does not want robots.
He wants relationship and if we violate it he will chasten us.

Personally I do not believe God gives the Holy Spirit to those who are not truly repentant of the sin of unbelief in Jesus (which Jesus said the Holy Spirit must come to convict the world off)

God knows the heart and I believe that is what he will act upon.

It appears you pervert the definition of FAITH, falsely making it part of obedience.

IT IS BECAUSE OF LOVE, THAT OBEDIENCE FOLLOWS AS PRODUCT OF THAT LOVE THAT HE PUT IN US, ROM. 5:5.

John 14:21 (HCSB)
21 The one who has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me. And the one who loves Me will be loved by My Father. I also will love him and will reveal Myself to him.”


TOTALLY IT IS PART OF LOVE that happens after SALVATION, and NEVER HAS BEEN PART OF SALVATION.


John 14:23 (HCSB)
23 Jesus answered, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.


TOTALLY IT IS PART OF LOVE that happens after SALVATION, and NEVER HAS BEEN PART OF SALVATION.


John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


TOTALLY IT IS PART OF LOVE that happens after SALVATION, and NEVER HAS BEEN PART OF SALVATION.


Romans 4:3-5 (ESV)
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Romans 11:6 (HCSB)
6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace. 🡨 👈

Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.

Romans 6:23 (ASV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 5:15 (ESV)
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.

Ephesians 2:5 (HCSB)
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!


So why do you try to Rob the LORD of the glory that solely belongs to HIM!

Let's do it here or maybe start a new thread.
I say here because maybe a lot of people here do not know either.
Part of me thinks start a new thread so as to not detract from this one, but maybe it may replicate the opposite of this thread "Works save"

But as I said I do not know what you are trying to convey along with others.

I will leave that up to you.
Either way no one has an excuse to indulge in conversation about it.

Amen! Hebrews 12:7 - It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. The AMP Bible in verse 8 reads - Now if you are exempt from correction and left without discipline in which all [of God’s children] share, then you are illegitimate offspring and not true sons [at all].

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

To Almighty God be the Glory forever and forever.

Hello ReturnToGod and welcome to the forum, I love your screen name. The beginning of this verse refers to, "works of righteousness which we have done", but you say, "it say's nothing of being faithful." I believe works of righteousness, "which we have done", is saying something about the "fruit of our faithfulness."

God bless!

King James Bible: Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness "which we have done", but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Blah blah blah.....read the whole thread...it is not about ongoing sanctification AFTER ONE HAS BEEN SAVED BY FAITH ALONE!!!!!!!!!!

You guys come in here, ignore the reason for the OP, then attribute motive or things not said or implied, then lip flap, accuse and go off on some tangent.....read thru the thread....then come engage me with this rigmarole about some book you may have written........geesh!

Wrong again Fran......you do realize that the above view equates Jesus to a complete and utter failure, liar and deceiver right?

What does the following words mean

Begins, finishes and completes?

In your book.....starts, cannot finish and walks away........

My bible is clear....

Jesus begins my faith
Jesus finishes my faith
JESUS COMPLETES MY FAITH

It is tragic that you worship, serve, believe in and peddle a weak, inept, lying Jesus that is not represented in scripture.....

You should be ashamed of yourself!

Amen brother....I guess most have no understanding of the word irrevocable....and some cannot grasp begins, finishes and completes....or even the words never leave, never forsake and saved to the uttermost!!

You got the tongue in cheek part right.....Paul was accused of the same crap you just accused @eternally-gratefull and many of us of......tells all what side you are really on....the bloviating, accusatory side that has no argument other than the bolded lie above which none here teach or espouse...!!