Is Universalsim in Opposition to the Bible?

Yes, I am fully aware that Jesus preached to the spirits in Hades. (the realm of the dead)

That means that their decision to receive Christ was made after death.
And it seems that Enoch did not go to Hades, but directly to heaven. Same with Elijah. Or was that Elisha?

So, from your perspective, how many "ways" is that?

Do you believe that a person needs to receive Christ before they die to secure their salvation? (the only way)

Yes i was repeatedly praying for wisdom and understanding from God when i first read the Bible.. I was way out of my depth.. It is very hard to understand the style of the Bible especially the older KJV translation.. I could never have the knowledge i have now without the Holy Spirit causing me to understand things.

I never said that (the only way)
Go back and read my posts.. I never said that one must accept the Way before they die... I said One Must accept the Way of salvation by believing the LORD Jesus Christ and accepting the Atonement He secured for the forgiveness of their sins for one to have salvation.. And that it is the ONLY WAY..

I have been consistent in standing by that doctrine right through this discussion.. But again and again you want to inject other ways to salvation...

"I love it when people credit God for their faulty doctrine. " - Sketch

That was sarcasm. Get a sense of humor.
What sort of judgment is it to say such a thing about my spirit?
As if not agreeing with you means I am what... possessed by a demon?
Get over yourself.

Shouldn't you be more concerned with your doctrine than with pointing fingers?

I never said that (the only way)
Go back and read my posts.. I never said that one must accept the Way before they die... I said One Must accept the Way of salvation by believing the LORD Jesus Christ and accepting the Atonement He secured for the forgiveness of their sins for one to have salvation.. And that it is the ONLY WAY..

Yes i was repeatedly praying for wisdom and understanding from God when i first read the Bible.. I was way out of my depth.. It is very hard to understand the style of the Bible especially the older KJV translation.. I could never have the knowledge i have now without the Holy Spirit causing me to understand things.






Yes God foreknew before the foundation of the world ( before creation ) who would be saved and who would not.. So no disagreement here on that point.. Actually i am not sure why you are even bringing this point up?? Except to say that this does away with the false doctrine of universalism.. If God foreknows who will be saved and who will be damned among us then obviously some are not going to be saved.. Therefore universalism is a false doctrine..

To say he is just an ancestor is to completley miss The point.

The fire does the tormenting as far as i know... Have you ever suffered from a burn to your skin?? It is not nice.. Imagine your whole body being in fire but never being consumed..

Syllogisms aside, the scriptures allow for defense of Universalism, as we see, and for a so called directed verdict, salvation or damnation eternally.
That you agree God foreknew before he created the earth, that would include the garden, the tree of knowledge, and the Adam and Eve, that he knew who would be saved and who would not, which would mean he had an awareness before the Adam ate of the apple, then that means he had no intention of their living in paradise eternally nor having any chance of eating of the tree of life so as to live eternally.
Now, the salvation paradigm he later set forth insures we live eternally.
There is no thing Omniscience cannot know. There is no thing omnipresence cannot see. There is no thing omnipotence cannot control.
God himself tells us he predestined all things. And he is all things.
Why would we who believe in God and His Word argue what he tells us himself?

That you agree God foreknew before he created the earth, that would include the garden, the tree of knowledge, and the Adam and Eve, that he knew who would be saved and who would not, which would mean he had an awareness before the Adam ate of the apple, then that means he had no intention of their living in paradise eternally nor having any chance of eating of the tree of life so as to live eternally.

Now, the salvation paradigm he later set forth insures we live eternally.

There is no thing Omniscience cannot know. There is no thing omnipresence cannot see. There is no thing omnipotence cannot control.

God himself tells us he predestined all things. And he is all things.

Why would we who believe in God and His Word argue what he tells us himself?

The Scripture doesn't say that. Who would be doing the tormenting? Don't say Satan and the demons (fallen angels); why should they be rewarded. And don't say God for many reasons. Then who? No true Christian would want to do such tormenting.

And if there are rooms in the Lake of Fire, what would be the differences be in the room for Hitler and the room for Pastor John Smith who strayed from teaching the Gospel.

Yes He knew all that was going to happen.. But He never forced them to choose what they chose.. They had free will to trust God or to trust satan.. No one can impute unrighteousness on God.. God also foreknew how He was going to Redeem the situation.. To justly bring about His eternal plan..



Only those who embrace the truth and trust in Gods Way of salvation..



If God wants Free willed beings He cannot control them like automation like zombies.. So while God can control humans He will not do so because that defeats the purpose of creating free willed beings..



He said He predestined those who accept His will to be conformed to the glory of Jesus.. Again he did not force anyone to accept his will or reject His will He foreknew who would accept His will and who would reject His Way of salvation.. People do those things by their own will..

Romans 8: KJV
29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

Foreknowledge comes before Predestination..



Because we hear many interpretations / conclusions about what He is telling us and many of those conclusions are based on the limited understanding of faulty human beings not on the inspiration of the Holy Spirit,,

***Such doesn't prove that all human beings will be saved, many becoming spiritually cleansed by the Lake of Fire. Universalists use that verse that God desires all to be saved. I don't think that the original Greek verse means that, because of what you mentioned about predestination by God.

The lake of fire is filled with fire and the fire will be the cause of their torment....

No satan and his angels will be in the lake of fire in torment forever and ever just like the rest who are cast into the eternal lake of fire..

I never said there where rooms in the Lake of fire.. The Lake of fire is a Lake so no rooms there as far as i know.. Sounds to me like you have got some ideas from the traditons of men in regard to the eternal lake of fire.. Maybe from Dante's inferno?? A work of fiction..

So if Hitler and pastor John Smith end up being cast into the eternal lake of fire they will both be suffering the same torment..

I wouldn't agree cleansing in the lake of fire would rightly be included in Universalist teachings. That sounds more like the RCC's Purgatory.

you are wrong. I knew a high up leader of the Universalist Religion. He died recently. And he sent me a lot of writings by Universalist Theologians. And I know the doctrine of RCC Purgatory. That was for giving hope to relatives that they could pay to get those who were not believers to Heaven instead of to Hell. It had nothing to do with the Lake of Fire.

I think we're misunderstanding one another here. You responded to my post, which I've copied and pasted here. My post and then your response are both showing in #489.
Lillywolf said:
Syllogisms aside, the scriptures allow for defense of Universalism, as we see, and for a so called directed verdict, salvation or damnation eternally.
That you agree God foreknew before he created the earth, that would include the garden, the tree of knowledge, and the Adam and Eve, that he knew who would be saved and who would not, which would mean he had an awareness before the Adam ate of the apple, then that means he had no intention of their living in paradise eternally nor having any chance of eating of the tree of life so as to live eternally.
Now, the salvation paradigm he later set forth insures we live eternally.
There is no thing Omniscience cannot know. There is no thing omnipresence cannot see. There is no thing omnipotence cannot control.
God himself tells us he predestined all things. And he is all things.
Why would we who believe in God and His Word argue what he tells us himself?

You Answered***Such doesn't prove that all human beings will be saved, many becoming spiritually cleansed by the Lake of Fire. Universalists use that verse that God desires all to be saved. I don't think that the original Greek verse means that, because of what you mentioned about predestination by God.

I quoted you then and responded in #493:I wouldn't agree cleansing in the lake of fire would rightly be included in Universalist teachings. That sounds more like the RCC's Purgatory.

Your remarks , ***Such doesn't prove that all human beings will be saved, many becoming spiritually cleansed by the Lake of Fire, are your own thoughts. I didn't say anything remotely linked to "spiritually cleansed by the Lake of Fire..."
However, I did comment that your remark is more reminiscent of the RCC's Purgatory. Which is what Purgatory is about. I.E. spiritual cleansing in fire and not so that unbelievers can enter Heaven. In RCC tradition Purgatory does not pertain to the unbeliever. The atheist who dies in their sins. Catholic Answers: PURGATORY

What Christians Want To Know: What is Purgatory
"Purgatory means “a cleansing place.” Purgatory is the place where “small sins” that have been committed since the last time the person participated in the sacrament of reconciliation are purged as a person spend times there between earth and heaven when they die. "

2 Timothy 3:5 to you.