Hardshell & Primitive Baptist "Conditional Time Salvation" Warning

Not quite. The pharisees were not including hindus as saved.

Am i understanding correctly that basically EVERYONE except for atheists are saved? Since they are a 'spiritual man' and believe in a 'higher spiritual being' and 'happy hunting grounds' in the afterlife?

Oy vey!

you are getting closer.

And you think that yours is which depends upon man to save himself eternally.

Not quite. The pharisees were not including hindus as saved.

Am i understanding correctly that basically EVERYONE except for atheists are saved? Since they are a 'spiritual man' and believe in a 'higher spiritual being' and 'happy hunting grounds' in the afterlife?

Oy vey!

And you think that yours is which depends upon man to save himself eternally.

If an atheist goes to A.A. then believes in a higher being he then gets to go to heaven. That would be "A.A. means" salvation.

Now we know what the devil was thinking when he invented the weird primitive baptist doctrine:

he was introducing it to discourage people from spreading the gospel.

Afterall, why bother witnessing to a hindu if hes already saved? POINTLESS

If an atheist goes to A.A. then believes in a higher being he then gets to go to heaven. That would be "A.A. means" salvation.

Lol when I first slobbered up I was a atheist. I was told just believe in anything as your higher power, even a doorknob. I was a bit of a Smart Alec back then so I chose a doorknob . Who would have thought it wasn’t God it was a doorknob.
Blessings
Bill

Please bear with this sort of long response. I believe you will deem it both appropriate and helpful.

Now that I have gained a better understanding of this CTS heresy, please allow me to explain it a little more in detail so others can grasp it, see why it is erroneous, where it is coming from, and why it distorts the one true Gospel of Christ. This information was gathered through reading and through comparing the teachings of PB’s with Scripture.

For the record “PB” means Primitive Baptist(s). “CTS” means “Conditional Time Salvation.”

When the PB churches came about via a split with the now Missionary Baptist side there was a campaign to further their "anti-means" “gospel” which was brought to light. This came about around the time William Carey became a missionary to India and was rebuked by the PB “church” with a statement similar to this; “If God wants to convert the heathen he will do it without you!”

By necessity there then came reason to assault the preaching of the true Gospel which God determined to use to save souls; Romans 1:16; James 1:12, 1 Peter 1:18-25; Romans 10:11-21. It must then be turned into something else altogether.

Please take time to read or reacquaint yourself with the above texts with an understanding that the PB will now attempt to distort their true meanings, change definitions &c.

Why? All this must be done because the PB now sees that many texts of Scripture must be reinterpreted in order for the PB “anti-means” “gospel” to survive. The PB knows that means are used in the Gospel, while denying it at the same time (depending upon what they want it to mean in any given circumstance). The meaning of the Gospel must either be changed or they will need to recant their “anti-means” “gospel.” The PB knows that once “anti-means” is disproven, and it is, their gospel will be found to be false. That is the point and objective of this entire response, to show their “anti-means” “gospel” as false and to proclaim and defend the true; Philippians 1:7, 16; Jude 4.

What does the “anti-means” gospel entail? The issue at hand is that to the PB God does not use any means to accomplish eternal salvation, it is all done mystically. To the PB preaching the Gospel is then not necessary for “eternal salvation” because God has already given eternal salvation to everyone he determines to save. Mission work to this end is to the PB “unbiblical,” as they only preach “for the love of fame” (thank you Sackcloth-N-Ashes for bringing this to our attention). Scripture that proves otherwise must fall under another interpretation. Therefore the meaning of salvation in the NT and even the Gospel itself is not immune to being reinterpreted, mitigated and attacked.

In addition to this some Scriptures must be taken to extreme misinterpretation and misapplication. One favorite text for such a misusage is 1 Corinthians 2:14. This misused text is foundational for them in order for the PB to prove “anti-means” teaching. The PB uses this text to “prove” that the person who has any kind of “spirituality,” has any “spiritual life” believes in any sort of god, afterlife, “heaven” or “hell” must have received this mystically through God and are therefore declared “eternally saved” by the PB.

This is why the PB now sees “eternal salvation” in the heathen everywhere. Any type of spirituality seen in tribal groups, Eastern Mysticism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Native Americans &c is then construed as “regeneration,” “conversion” “eternal salvation” without them ever hearing the Gospel. They have to do this again for one main reason: to prove their “anti-means” “gospel”. Any belief in an afterlife, a god, anything spiritual along these lines automatically places them “into heaven” and as converted. To the PB these people are on their way to heaven. It is of no matter that they reject Christ, hate God, may hate and reject the Gospel, have no understanding of the Gospel or even know that they are even “eternally saved.” They’ll simply be amazed by it all “when they get to heaven.” This systematically denies justification by faith, and is therefore a false gospel.

The PB’s call this teaching “attractive” and such a false gospel is; it lends itself to the carnal desires of men. Many theological issues arise because of this “attractive” teaching such as antinomianism, mitigation of sanctification, mysticism, special revelation &c but that is too much to get into here and now. My point is to show why CTS is heresy, where it came from, and that the true Gospel is to eternal life, not temporary salvation “in time.” Please note 2 Timothy 2:8-10 shows plainly this gospel is to “eternal glory in Christ.” This is the means of the Gospel of Christ; eternal salvation wrought through the preaching of the Gospel, something the church has always believed and preached.

But we must go back and see that this is not the meaning of the text of 1 Corinthians 2:14 nor its intent as used above by the PB.

One can see the extreme extent of which the PB misuses the text.

The text instead shows natural men outside the Gospel are lost, are in need of eternal salvation, and that through the preaching of Gospel these men can come to believe the truth. This is shown in other texts of Scripture. God opens hearts and understanding through the preaching of the Gospel; Matthew 11:25-10; Acts 16:14; 2 Corinthian 4:1-5; Luke 24: 32, 45; Job 33:16; 1 John 5:20 &c. 1 Corinthians 2:14 is therefore not teaching that men cannot be affected by hearing the Gospel and thereby be saved eternally. Please note the context of 2:14 begins in chapter 1, that 2:14 should not be divorced from that context, and note especially verse 10. Paul is not speaking of some mystical salvation devoid of the Gospel, but of eternal salvation via the Gospel. It is not teaching that the only reason a person believes the Gospel, or the PB “gospel” is because they were already “eternally saved.” That is absurd. It is not the teaching of the text, yet every text of Scripture must be reinterpreted and fall under PB CTS teaching in order to assault these known truths.

(End part 1)

So you are saying this PBS are antifundamentalist fundamentalists? How strange? How twisted they cannot see the obvious. I was in the New Age movement BEFORE. I was saved. I believed in gurus, and all kinds of weird things as the way to "heaven" to use the term loosely.

But the people who were saved, and kept preaching to me, my grandmother's prayers - I finally picked up a Bible because of her and started to read it - those were some of the things that led me to God. And, my future husband telling me God wanted me to repent of my sins. I was NOT saved until I heard the gospel, and having known many people from many different religions, neither are they.

What do we do with all these:

Jer 23:21
I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message; I did not speak to them, yet they prophesied.

Jeremiah 14:14
"The prophets are prophesying lies in My name," the LORD replied. "I did not send them or appoint them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a false vision, a worthless divination, the futility and delusion of their own minds.

Jeremiah 23:32
"Indeed," declares the LORD, "I am against those who prophesy false dreams they tell to lead My people astray with their reckless lies. It was not I who sent or commanded them, and they are of no benefit at all to these people," declares the LORD.

Jeremiah 27:14
Do not listen to the words of the prophets who tell you, 'You must not serve the king of Babylon,' for they are prophesying to you a lie.
15 For I have not sent them,' declares the LORD, 'and yet they are prophesying falsely in My name; therefore I will banish you and you will perish--you and the prophets who prophesy to you.'"

Jeremiah 29:8
For this is what the LORD of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: 'Do not be deceived by the prophets and diviners among you, and do not listen to the dreams you elicit from them

Jeremiah 5:31
The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule by their own authority. My people love it so, but what will you do in the end?"

So you are saying this PBS are antifundamentalist fundamentalists? How strange? How twisted they cannot see the obvious. I was in the New Age movement BEFORE. I was saved. I believed in gurus, and all kinds of weird things as the way to "heaven" to use the term loosely.

But the people who were saved, and kept preaching to me, my grandmother's prayers - I finally picked up a Bible because of her and started to read it - those were some of the things that led me to God. And, my future husband telling me God wanted me to repent of my sins. I was NOT saved until I heard the gospel, and having known many people from many different religions, neither are they.

Oy vey!

Where is ANY of this in the Bible? Show me the verses NOW, please?

Show me even ONE SCRIPTURE that has someone OUTSIDE OF JESUS saved? Jesus says He is the ONLY WAY to the Father. There is NO OTHER NAME GIVEN UNDER HEAVEN by which men shall be saved.

And i dont care if its TEMPORAL or ETERNAL salvation, makes no difference whatsoever, Jesus is the ONLY WAY to the Father.

you are getting closer.

Primitive Baptist translation:

I was saved eternally and regenerated in the guru-movement but then I was saved in time temporally by believing the Gospel.

John 12:47 - And if any man hear my voice, and believe not, I judge him not; for I came not to judge the world,(God's sheep), but to save (deliver them from a lack of knowledge) the world (the elect which are God's sheep). Matt 10:5-6 - These 12 Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any cities of the Samaritans, enter ye not, But go ye rather to the lost sheep (if they are sheep, they are God's children) of the house of Israel (house of Jacob because God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel which represents God's elect) and as ye go preach, saying, the The kingdom of heaven (which is the visible church) is at hand. Matt 15:24 - But Jesus answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Humm saved from being saved . Confused 🤷‍♂️
Blessings
Bill

And you think that yours is which depends upon man to save himself eternally.

Lol when I first slobbered up I was a atheist. I was told just believe in anything as your higher power, even a doorknob. I was a bit of a Smart Alec back then so I chose a doorknob . Who would have thought it wasn’t God it was a doorknob.
Blessings
Bill