Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

But we are already saved in Chapter 1. Redundant much? Give it up, Sherlock.

faith is a gift from God. It is not forced on a person. It comes FROM HEARING, and HEARING from the word of God.

Again, John 6. He who sees and believes, How do we see? By the word.

if Jesus did not die, If he did not get raised from the dead. if he did nto send his spirit to convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment, and did not write his law in our DNA, and creat the world in a way which no one can deny his existence. We woudl never have anythign to have faith in.

The gift is the ability to have faith to begin with. Because without God and his plan. Our faith could ONLY be in self.

You miss the glory of God when you deny His power. His majesty is shown in His character:
Omnipresent
Omnipotent
Omniscient
Immutable

He created everything and then prepared for His great plan by the pro-orizo of Genesis, where ALL His creation was divided between dark and light.

Eph 1: 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[a] is the [b]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

yep. It does not say after you were regenerated. it says after you heard the word of truth, and witness by the word of God the logos.. The savior. The messiah, the redeemer, the lord of Hosts. The savior.

No one is disputing that. But once God's sovereignty is distorted in order to produce a false gospel, then we have a MAJOR PROBLEM.

"Hell is empty, and all the devils are here."

The Tempest, Act I, Scene II by William Shakespeare

You forgot

Perfect justice
Perfect love

Love can not over rule justice, But love provided a way. And you can not have perfect love without providing free will. You think they can, Maybe that explains alot

And you keep ignoreing his will. You ignore jesus words. Amazing that I have posted jesus words numerous times, Yet you and your brother refuse to even acknowledge Jesus said it

You know what they call people who do that?

KJV Job 12:14-25

14. Behold, he breaketh down, and it cannot be built again: he shutteth up a man, and there can be no opening.

15. Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth.

16. With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

17. He leadeth counsellers away spoiled, and maketh the judges fools.

18. He looseth the bond of kings, and girdeth their loins with a girdle.

19. He leadeth princes away spoiled, and overthroweth the mighty.

20. He removeth away the speech of the trusty, and taketh away the understanding of the aged.

21. He poureth contempt upon princes, and weakeneth the strength of the mighty.

22. He discovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.

23. He increaseth the nations, and destroyeth them: he enlargeth the nations, and straiteneth them again.

24. He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.

25. They grope in the dark without light, and he maketh them to stagger like a drunken man.

Sorry about the gender mistake. We do interpret the scriptures differently, but that is why the forum exists. My problem until I was 62 years old, was the scriptures, seemingly, contradicted each other. I knew that they are supposed to harmonize, which they do to me now. I believe that every word is in the scriptures for a reason and that no verse should be put on the shelf as not explainable without scrutinizing it to your fullest ability, however I am not successful in a lot of cases. I have stuck with the doctrine where the largest amount of scriptures seem to harmonize. In my estimation, most of God's children do not understand how depraved the natural man is. We all were in that state of being until we were regenerated and could began to discern spiritual things. I do commend every one on this forum for their dedication in studying the scriptures, and defending what I believe to be the doctrine that Jesus taught is my passion. God speed in your attempts in seeking the truth.

Luke 6:40

The disciple is not above his master: but every one shall be perfect, if he be as his master.

God has taught us in Scripture that we will be perfect because He is perfect. We are also taught that we will be just like Jesus, though we will not be He, we will be just like He.

The first, in the Old Testament, sounds like a command, 2You shall be perfect for I, your God, am perfect." Now I understand this to be a promise to those who believe…..

As for the natural man, although I was not convinced of Jesus Christ by His Holy Spirit until I was 25, I had several markers of God being in my life long before. Twice being near death I had the experience of talking tothe One Who Is, and once, at about age seven I had a waking vision that I did not quite understand fully until the Holy Spirit entered into me, though I did tend to lean on that understanding until the Father drew me in to Jesus, and He to the Father.

It would be almost hopeless for people if they did not have some guidance to Salvation.

It would help if you noted the actual verse, or is it your tactic to be evasive?

Eph 2:5 says they were yet spiritually dead when they were regenerated, and believing spiritual things was not in their ability.

You are not blowing them out of the water, you are drowning in the water.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Are Christ's words and teaching good enough for all?

You cannot seize truth, that is, you cannot forcefully receive it from God, it must be received of the Holy Spirit.

If any "interpret" anyo of the Scriptures it is not he rather it is taught by the Holy Spirit. Now my quote is Jesus...…...if that is not good enough for all, nothing is.

Salvation took place in chapter 1, not chapter 2.

If some calvinist can show a verse that says people are first born again (or regenerated, or whatever word you wish to use here) BEFORE they believe (or are saved, again whatever word you wish to use here) that would prove their case to be true and I believe all would "convert" to reformed theology.

I know I would bow before that evidence.