Question(s) to those who believe salvation can be lost

They cannot answer or like I said.....they will say they have NEVER lost it, or in their case got it back or did not lose it all the way etc...or have ALWAYS been obedient or don't sin or ..........fill in the blank...what does that honestly say about their belief.....!!

Maybe because they are a wee bit confused.........since you said this in an earlier comment?

Oy vey.

This isnt a thread about OSAS. Its a thread to people who DO believe they can lose their salvation, and how their proof texts (imo) doesnt match with their belief that you can regain that lost salvation

Scripture does tell us a lot about salvation -- which is perfect, complete, and multifaceted.

However, it would be better if you discover this for yourself.

It's a big subject. You need to know the word on it quite well. This is why bible study is so important. Because it's a misty window and you have to focus quite hard to see the truth. To know for sure based on scripture what God says in regards to and as far as His last word on the matter goes. Sure! A person can lose their place in heaven but only if they chose/choose to. But only if they reject and deny their faith and their place in heaven in the next life. But who would do that? We can see that some people in the history of life do. And like it's written all sins will be forgiven accept the sin of faithlessness. It is written. Christ died for all, sinner and saint. That includes devout Christians that still sin even though they believe. Sure it is also written that for those people that go on deliberately sinning even though they know it's wrong have no more remission for their sin. Nobody knows how exactly they'll be judged on that day by Christ when we are. But it is written that it is through our faith we are saved and forgiven. So he would be saved through his faith. Saved in the sense that he doesn't get sent to hell. But it's also written that each of us will be awarded according to the things we've done while in the body in this life as well. How much we lived it for Him. Something I wish I could say a lot about but I'd only be wise to want to live in heaven than hell but even if I could live in the lowest level and place of heaven and could spend my eternity worshipping and praising him with songs, poems, art, movies and music then I would be more than happy. But yeah! God is love remember that right? You understand the significance of that right? Do you really think the God who gave us life would make it so easy to lose your salvation if you are a true believer? Or if you are but aren't exactly the most devout or practicing Christian of any kind. But you're still a believer though.

What about if I'm a really devout perfect role model Christian but then go on to abandon my faith and become a gangster and or mass murderer and all out evil sinner? Will I lose my salvation come the first rapture / 2nd coming?

I can see how that conversation would go. Son you believed in me but you didn't devote all your heart mind and soul to me. You pursued your own freshly desires. Yet you did pray to confess a lot and for other people too. And you did always read my word. Yet through it all you knew you wasn't living right. You knew you was sinning against me, against God, heaven and yourself. You couldn't understand why you done those things and lived that way. When you knew whst you was doing was wrong and wanted to do the right thing but done the opposite. Doing what you didn't and shouldn't do, and not doing that which you know you should and want to do. Even so you still believed in me and the Father. That I could save you and restore you to me and to God so that you could have hope, peace and a future. Here is your reward. Go now into eternal life and sin no more.

What about that Roman centurian who smited his own chest and daren't even look up to heaven saying God forgive me a sinner? He was a believer, he came to realise and believe the man he was crucifying was indeed the son of God. He carried on being a centurian and inevitably died as one too. He wasn't exactly a devout Christian follower was he? Yet even he will be saved through his faith come judgement day.

It is by faith we are saved.
Not by works.
However we are awarded by
Our faith and deeds in this life.

So you can't "lose" it.
Salvation that is.
It's a gift.
Not a free gift though.
A gift paid for
with Christ's blood and life
You can only reject it
And deny it
But love conquers all.

Have a little faith in your salvation through your faith. Saint and sinner.

those who should doubt, don't doubt
those who should be sure, are not so sure

I agree, something's wrong here

those who should doubt, don't doubt
those who should be sure, are not so sure

I agree, something's wrong here

If a person is saved, and they sin, they can be forgiven of that sin, and move forward in the Spirit.

Even if a person holds unto sin for a year, and they repent of it not wanting it anymore, and mean it, they can be forgiven, and move forward in the Spirit.

Hebrews 6:4-6 is different than someone that sins, and can be forgiven, but it is a graver mistake.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

These people were saved, but they went back to enjoying sins, but they can be forgiven of these sins, and move forward in the Spirit, if they repent of it, and mean it.

These people did not fall away, and they still believed the Bible, and confessed Jesus as Lord and Savior, believing the Gospel of Christ in the truth, but went back to enjoying sins after they were saved, but they can be forgiven, and a solution out of this situation.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

When we are saved, going through the process that saved us, we move unto perfection, and not repeat the process of what saved us, and the essential doctrines of Christ, but go on to be perfected in the Spirit acting Christlike, and love.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This is different than people that believe the Gospel, and sin, which they can be forgiven, but these people fell away, which means they stopped believing that Jesus is Lord and Savior by whatever belief they started believing contrary to the truth of Jesus and the Gospel.

The people in 2 Peter did not fall away, and a solution out of the situation, but these people fell away, and impossible to restore them.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

God warns the saints of the new age movement, and their false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and believe people can still evolve to be greater, and spiritual, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher in the evolutionary process, and love, but not the final teacher, and do not acknowledge a personal God, but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher in the evolutionary process.

The Bible says many people shall depart from the faith, and follow the new age movement, and their false interpretation of the Bible, and stopped believing Jesus is Lord and Savior, for they abandoned the Gospel in favor of the evolution lie and they will evolve to be greater, and spiritual, and not a God to give them salvation.

That is an example of falling way, and if they decide they made a mistake, and believe again that Jesus is Lord and Savior, they cannot be renewed again, for they have to go through the process of the essential doctrines of Christ, and have faith again, and repentance from dead works, and baptism, and the process of being saved again, which then they put Jesus to an open shame for abandoning Him not believing, and then believing again.

So the moral of the story is if you sin it can be forgiven, for that is not falling away, but do not ever abandon Jesus as Lord and Savior.

But of course if a person did not believe the Gospel of Christ, and believed the new age movement, and then decided by study of the Bible, or by wise words of mouth, that the new age movement was wrong in their interpretation of the Bible, and abandoned the new age movement, and believed Jesus is Lord and Savior, they can be saved for they are a sinner in need of salvation.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The new age movement is the future for this sinful world, and the time will come the world will only want to hear the Bible according to the new age movement, which will lead the people that do not love God to follow the New Age Christ.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Which this is another example of falling away, which this falling away has to do with the condition of the world in response to the Gospel, which the nations come together and try to establish peace on earth, and the new age movement the unified religious system, and they stop the preaching of the Gospel of Christ on a worldwide level, for anything taught contrary to the unified religious system is illegal, and will cause the man of sin, New Age Christ, to rule over them.

So in Hebrews 6 the falling away is because they abandoned Christ, and stopped believing the Gospel, and if they believe again they cannot be renewed.

But some people will not understand how they could fall away after they believed the Gospel, but that is what the Bible says, and they should understand what the Bible actually says concerning them being right with God, and that it is possible for a person to fall away from the truth.

Hebrews 6:4-6 is not speaking of someone sinning, and cannot repent of it, but it is speaking of someone abandoning the truth of Jesus as Lord and Savior, and then believing again, which they cannot be renewed.

If we sin we can be forgiven all day long as long as we hold unto the truth of God, and Jesus.

And in that is the dilemma. And the question has to be raised as to where the line is drawn. To sin is to trample. And everyone sins. Some more than others. Are those who have been blessed allowed minimal sin or maybe a little more? Like little lies. Or just lusting after your neighbors wife but never acting on it. Or charging what you know is a unfair price for your services. Or living in luxury while children in 3rd world countries are dying from starvation and lack of simple medical treatment.
If what you say is true, you have to define the line. Then show it in scripture. But you can not. Because you fail to see the major contradiction to your theology. Sorry, but there is no nice way to say it and that is ok with me because I know it to be true and am just trying to open your eyes to it. Surely you all must see the huge dilemma?

I don't think I have reached your understanding with my point. There are more scriptures about how to live as a saved person than there are scriptures about how to be saved.

Being saved, understanding and having faith that God created us and understanding all God is to us is the first step. It is wonderful and opens up real life. But it is the first step. Then we need to have faith in all the rest of what God tells us, we need to live for Him.

The Lord puts it this way: if you want to be great in the kingdom of heaven you must obey.

Well i believe salvation can be lost but i do not believe it can be regained after it is lost.. So you can see why i cannot answer the question to people who believe salvation can be lose and then regained...

Your question is to people who believe salvation can be lost and then regained....

Thank you.

You are CONSISTENT in your beliefs. I can respect that.
Do you believe you lose it when you sin too much,, or when you stop believing in Jesus?

How does it work for you?

A person must first believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement that Jesus secured for their salvation by His death on the cross.... So the person must first be a true Christian..

If that person then ceases to believe Jesus and no longer trusts that the Atonement that Jesus secured that person will not be saved a second time..

I believe there are more then a few people in this world who have been indoctrinated into a false doctrines. So much so that they where never true Christians in the first state,, later on they have abandoned their cult and become agnostics or atheists.. They believed they where Christian but in truth they never where saved.. These people can later on in life seek Gods will anew and come to understand the true Gospel and be saved..

Our salvation has nothing to do with our sinning because we are forgiven all our sins if we keep trusting in the Atonement Jesus secured to cover our sins..

I will add one exception to that sin statement.. There is one sin ""Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit "" that if it is committed then it shall never be forgiven in this world or the next.. But i believe that the Holy Spirit will prevent a truly saved Christian from ever committing that sin..

Salvation is dependent on us Believing and Trusting Jesus .. It is not about our performance in our efforts to avoid sin or in our success rate in doing good works..

Several things. One verse says "...and after having tasted the things of God and departing,the last state is worse than the first..." ( the first being BEFORE salvation)
Another would be ".... And i will not blot you out of the book of life"
( meaning it would be possible)

Another example is the parable of the prodigal.
(He departed. The father DID NOT go after him EXCEPT he repented)
....inferring he COULD HAVE stayed lost.

IOW, could it be?
Some operate at the edge of carnality and sin.
They must truly " belive" OSAS just for peace of mind.

Christianity is perverted that way.
OSAS IS NOT a factor to anyone who is in an intimate walk with Jesus in love devotion and obedience.
To those that have devorced this world and follow Jesus with all their hearts ,any little slip or sin breaks their heart instantly. Repentance is deep and tearful,knowing they also broke HIS heart.
Only one " temperature" for victory and intimacy.>>>>>>>>WHITE HOT.

Except you are ignoring these verses which show that Paul is talking about lost people, not the saved . . .

"But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak" (Hebrews 6:9).

"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:39).

Well not really.
Read the 10 virgin parable.Half didn't go with the wise into the marriage chamber.
Saved but excluded. Not "unsaved" from the lof. Just not worthy for a CONTINUED intimacy like the wise.The foolish faced the ac and got their heads removed.
(Pssst...all martyrs go to heaven)

"But,but,but they,the foolish never were saved" you say.
Ok lets see;
Virgins,pure,undefiled......check
Had lamps.......check
Had light............check
Had oil.........check
Were waiting for Jesus......check
Were in fellowship with the saints...check
Were scrambling to get right....check
Asked the wise for oil....check.
Wanted light ,as they once had...check

Never have seen the first heathen do even one of those things.

There's a reason why the Lord seals the believer with His Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. The Lord knows we need it! He walked this sin cursed world. He took on a body of flesh.

But I thought blasphemy of the Holy Ghost was the only unforgivable sin? Not that you believe today, stop beleiving tomorrrow, then believe again the next day.

Hmm.

That's the problem with only using pet proof texts rather than examining the context of a verse. By itself, a verse can be made to say practically anything, but Hebrews 6 and 10 cannot be made to say what they don't say and thank God that He added the verses at the end that clearly tell us who Paul is referring to.

But those that call God a liar can't call God a liar if they read the whole context, therefore, they don't.

Here is what Adam Clarke has to say on Hebrews:

Verse 4

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened - Before I proceed to explain the different terms in these verses, it is necessary to give my opinion of their design and meaning:

1. I do not consider them as having any reference to any person professing Christianity.

• They do not belong, nor are they applicable, to backsliders of any kind.
• They belong to apostates from Christianity; to such as reject the whole Christian system, and its author, the Lord Jesus.
• And to those of them only who join with the blaspheming Jews, call Christ an impostor, and vindicate his murderers in having crucified him as a malefactor; and thus they render their salvation impossible, by wilfully and maliciously rejecting the Lord that bought them. No man believing in the Lord Jesus as the great sacrifice for sin, and acknowledging Christianity as a Divine revelation, is here intended, though he may have unfortunately backslidden from any degree of the salvation of God.

The design of these solemn words is evidently, First, to show the Hebrews that apostasy from the highest degrees of grace was possible; and that those who were highest in the favor of God might sin against him, lose it, and perish everlastingly. Secondly, to warn them against such an awful state of perdition, that they might not be led away, by either the persuasions or persecutions of their countrymen, from the truth of the heavenly doctrine which had been delivered to them. And, Thirdly, to point out the destruction which was shortly to come upon the Jewish nation.

Full text:

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/hebrews-6.html

There seems to be a whole spectrum of beliefs on this subject. It is more than just two-sided.
Much more than OSAS and anti-OSAS. Or the belief in eternal security and those against it.

Now that I am better acquainted with those who call themselves OSAS, I will not subscribe to it.
Simply because I do not want to be associated with that group of doctrinal thugs.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in eternal security. But I don't subscribe to OSAS as a group.
Using the scriptures you quoted in your OP as an exception to eternal security in the case of
extreme apostacy, a rejecting of Christ. But this is not a loss of salvation that we can
achieve as a result of our own doing. Ultimately the decision is for God to make.
In general we can reject Christ and always return to him.

The only time we cannot return is when he in turn rejects us.
This is similar to the hardening of heart we see in the Pharaoh of Egypt at the Exodus.
We read: "And Pharaoh hardened his heart", over and over until we read,
"And God hardened Pharaoh's heart."