Question(s) to those who believe salvation can be lost

[Hevosmies]

NOTE: This thread is NOT about debating OSAS vs non-OSAS.

Now that we got that out of the way, lets dive into it:

When i attend, I attend a pentecostal service. And as many of you probably know, I disagree with some of the stuff they teach, but I will not bring this up because I dont want to cause strife and division, because im not a pastor, im just a regular guy.

However, I have often heard people who say you can lose your salvation quote Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26 as a proof text.

Now lets assume for argument's sake that those verses mean exactly the way those who believe in conditional security believe they mean: WHY do so many pentecostals and others who believe you can lose your salvation ALSO believe you can GET IT BACK?
Because Hebrews 6:4-6 specifically says its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance? So why all this talk for example about David losing his salvation, then REPENTING and getting it back? Which would go against Hebrews 6:4-6?

For those who just want TL;DR here it is: Why do you believe that you can get your salvation BACK after you lost it, in light of verses that you use to prove salvation can be lost, which say its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance (hebr 6:4-6) and no sacrifice remains and they have trampled the blood of Jesus (hebr 10:26ff)?

 

[JaumeJ]

You are going to get OSAS no matter how you word it…….

My consolation for this, and I truly believe the remedy for all who question is from Jesus and His parable.

I speak of the parable of the one out of a hundred sheep gone astry, and the Good Shepherd went out to find it.

When He found it He rejoiced and the ninety-nine rejoiced with Him.

Jesus Christ is not good just some of the time, nope, He is always good, amen. God bless you always……..learn first from the Master and the rest will resolve itself.

 

[Adstar]

NOTE: This thread is NOT about debating OSAS vs non-OSAS.

Now that we got that out of the way, lets dive into it:

When i attend, I attend a pentecostal service. And as many of you probably know, I disagree with some of the stuff they teach, but I will not bring this up because I dont want to cause strife and division, because im not a pastor, im just a regular guy.

However, I have often heard people who say you can lose your salvation quote Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26 as a proof text.

Now lets assume for argument's sake that those verses mean exactly the way those who believe in conditional security believe they mean: WHY do so many pentecostals and others who believe you can lose your salvation ALSO believe you can GET IT BACK?
Because Hebrews 6:4-6 specifically says its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance? So why all this talk for example about David losing his salvation, then REPENTING and getting it back? Which would go against Hebrews 6:4-6?

For those who just want TL;DR here it is: Why do you believe that you can get your salvation BACK after you lost it, in light of verses that you use to prove salvation can be lost, which say its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance (hebr 6:4-6) and no sacrifice remains and they have trampled the blood of Jesus (hebr 10:26ff)?

Well your question is not to those who believe salvation can be lost..
Your question is to ""Pentecostals"" who believe that salvation can be lost and then regained..

And What is TL;DR ???

 

[dcontroversal]

Simple......context, who this was written unto and what they were wanting to do....

Salvation is not losable........

The gifts of God are IRREVOCABLE.....Salvation is a gift...end of story!

 

[Hevosmies]

Simple......context, who this was written unto and what they were wanting to do....

Salvation is not losable........

The gifts of God are IRREVOCABLE.....Salvation is a gift...end of story!

Oy vey.

This isnt a thread about OSAS. Its a thread to people who DO believe they can lose their salvation, and how their proof texts (imo) doesnt match with their belief that you can regain that lost salvation

 

[Hevosmies]

Well your question is not to those who believe salvation can be lost..
Your question is to ""Pentecostals"" who believe that salvation can be lost and then regained..

And What is TL;DR ???

TL;DR means Too long didnt read.

And this IS to those who beleive salvation can be lost, not JUST pentecostals. Seriously now.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

There are two passages in Hebrews which folks use to calls God's gift of eternal salvation a lie. I speak of the verses Hevosmies quoted in the OP.

These verses cannot speak of losing salvation, because it is plain that the recipients of that message were never saved--but they came mighty close. You might even say that they are just outside of the door where Jesus is knocking.

Paul was not speaking of Christians in either passage . . . he was speaking of those that had heard the Gospel and had rejected it. By the way, anytime you put off receiving Christ for a "more convenient season". you are saying 'NO' to God, and rejecting Him. How do I know this? Because of two crucial verses . . .

"But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak" (Hebrews 6:9).

"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:39).

Although Peter felt it necessary to say what that we that are saved are "scarcely saved", I believe he included himself, and I am thrilled by the fact that "He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them" (Hebrews 7:25).

Doubting whether you can make it to the end is no way for a Blood-bought believer to go through life. It's hard enough as it is!

 

[Hevosmies]

There are two passages in Hebrews which folks use to calls God's gift of eternal salvation a lie. I speak of the verses Hevosmies quoted in the OP.

These verses cannot speak of losing salvation, because it is plain that the recipients of that message were never saved--but they came mighty close. You might even say that they are just outside of the door where Jesus is knocking.

Paul was not speaking of Christians in either passage . . . he was speaking of those that had heard the Gospel and had rejected it. By the way, anytime you put off receiving Christ for a "more convenient season". you are saying 'NO' to God, and rejecting Him. How do I know this? Because of two crucial verses . . .

"But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak" (Hebrews 6:9).

"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:39).

Although Peter felt it necessary to say what that we that are saved are "scarcely saved", I believe he included himself, and I am thrilled by the fact that "He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them" (Hebrews 7:25).

Doubting whether you can make it to the end is no way for a Blood-bought believer to go through life. It's hard enough as it is!

Great post! I agree. I hope you didnt get the idea I believe you can be saved unsaved saved unsaved etc. from my post. I was just asking questions to those who DO believe that. So far no replies, but im waiting! Myabe someone can 'splain that to me!

I always feel bad for the people who CONSTANTLY doubt their salvation, I have some in my family. They always worry about going to hell, and its because they wonder what if I did this and that and its all just a gamble.
I wouldn't waste time liviing for God if salvation wasnt a guarantee, but merely a POSSIBILITY, and you just cant know until you pass to the other side.
(Despite the Bible saying we can know now)

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Great post! I agree. I hope you didnt get the idea I believe you can be saved unsaved saved unsaved etc. from my post. I was just asking questions to those who DO believe that. So far no replies, but im waiting! Myabe someone can 'splain that to me!

Nope, you made that point yourself in the OP . . . I agree!

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I always feel bad for the people who CONSTANTLY doubt their salvation, I have some in my family. They always worry about going to hell

It is these that I wonder if they ever truly were saved. We know that salvation is placing our trust in the completed work of Christ on Calvary--which means--there is nothing left that we have to do (other than simply repent and believe). When a person isn't sure they are going to heaven it means that they think there is still something missing in the equation, and that part has to come from them.

The thing they ought to consider is just how much is enough? If it is God's perfect standard of righteousness and holiness . . . they can never attain to it.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

(Despite the Bible saying we can know now)

And that is the other side of the issue -- they are flat out calling God a liar (or they disguise it by saying that there is no way they can ever trust a book that is merely the production of men, seeing as how men make mistakes. Well God does not make mistakes and He was very much in charge of what was written and what was preserved for us. God says we can know, I believe God, therefore I know it!

 

[luigi]

NOTE: This thread is NOT about debating OSAS vs non-OSAS.

Now that we got that out of the way, lets dive into it:

When i attend, I attend a pentecostal service. And as many of you probably know, I disagree with some of the stuff they teach, but I will not bring this up because I dont want to cause strife and division, because im not a pastor, im just a regular guy.

However, I have often heard people who say you can lose your salvation quote Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26 as a proof text.

Now lets assume for argument's sake that those verses mean exactly the way those who believe in conditional security believe they mean: WHY do so many pentecostals and others who believe you can lose your salvation ALSO believe you can GET IT BACK?
Because Hebrews 6:4-6 specifically says its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance? So why all this talk for example about David losing his salvation, then REPENTING and getting it back? Which would go against Hebrews 6:4-6?

For those who just want TL;DR here it is: Why do you believe that you can get your salvation BACK after you lost it, in light of verses that you use to prove salvation can be lost, which say its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance (hebr 6:4-6) and no sacrifice remains and they have trampled the blood of Jesus (hebr 10:26ff)?

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Context is everything in Hebrews 6:4-6.
How can we say we have all been enlightened, when we all seem to disagree?
And as we are all of differing opinions, we can then not have tasted of the heavenly gift of the good Word of God, and the powers of the world to come.
If, however, you believe you meet these conditions, and then decide you prefer your old carnal nature over your well recognized within yourself new spiritual nature; you would then either be the proverbial pig returning to wallow in the mire, or the dog to its vomit.

 

[dcontroversal]

Oy vey.

This isnt a thread about OSAS. Its a thread to people who DO believe they can lose their salvation, and how their proof texts (imo) doesnt match with their belief that you can regain that lost salvation

I understand the context and what you wanted out of the OP....I, in a round about way made the point about Hebrews in my first statement and where they are missing the mark when it comes to your cited verse....'

I agree with the obvious contradiction that you point out....I have said it this way...the very people who say it can be lost (per your text) will also so that...

a. They have never lost it
b. They lost it but got it back <----of course some long winded tap dancing back flips trying to explain how they can get back which could not be gotten back if it were possible.....

 

[Hevosmies]

b. They lost it but got it back <----of course some long winded tap dancing back flips trying to explain how they can get back which could not be gotten back if it were possible.....

The silence is amazing here. This is precisely the point I want answered but so far nobody has stepped up

I wonder why. Usually people are all over those OSAS threads. HMM!

 

[Nehemiah6]

WHY do so many pentecostals and others who believe you can lose your salvation ALSO believe you can GET IT BACK?

They believe in a see-saw salvation. Up today, down tomorrow, up again the next day. After all, life has its ups and downs.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

The silence is amazing here. This is precisely the point I want answered but so far nobody has stepped up

I wonder why. Usually people are all over those OSAS threads. HMM!

If you had created a thread that was pro-eternal security they would be all over the thing . . . but this does not challenge their position. They already believe we can lose our salvation, so they have nothing to argue.

 

[Hevosmies]

If you had created a thread that was pro-eternal security they would be all over the thing . . . but this does not challenge their position. They already believe we can lose our salvation, so they have nothing to argue.

Oy vey. I think I will just try to ask specific people on the forum about that and see what they say.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Oy vey. I think I will just try to ask specific people on the forum about that and see what they say.

The only thing that riles up Satan’s crowd is truth. Satan’s main work is to convince lost people that they are saved and saved people that they are lost.

 

[Blik]

Scripture tells us that you are saved as a result of faith. But scripture doesn't tell us a lot about salvation, it speaks more often about how a saved person is to live.

You can be saved and be the least in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Pumpkinspice]

The silence is amazing here. This is precisely the point I want answered but so far nobody has stepped up

I wonder why. Usually people are all over those OSAS threads. HMM!

Osas as funny as it sounds