Not By Works

WRONG.

SALVATION is a FREE GIFT FROM GOD the Very moment you GENUINELY BELIEVE, RECEIVING HIM AS LORD, meaning MASTER.

LOVE IS WHAT WE DO AFTER HE HAS SAVED US, the Holy Spirit poured GOD's LOVE directly into our HEARTS (Human Spirit) Rom. 5:5, birthing our Human Spirit INTO ETERNAL LIFE; AND IN THAT VERY MOMENT, IT IS COMPLETE. That SEED OF GOD'S LOVE in our Hearts, Will Sprout Producing the SAME KIND OF LOVE BACK Towards HIM in Obedience and towards Our Brethren. LOVE IS THE MOTIVE FOR OBEDIENCE, something you will do for the rest of your life, AFTER you are SAVED.

No, I do not agree with the statement Salvation produces obedience.

It is GOD's LOVE poured into our Hearts, that Produces Obedience.

Here is the Proof.

1 John 3:17 (HCSB)
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

concentrate, 48,
no repeat, but feel free to hesitate
I'll go first, you go second,
concentrate on ...

... the topic of self-righteousness

sure did. like I said, maybe you just don't listen. or maybe you do it on purpose?

Here's a post I found while reading from previous posts and my views relative to your stance that:

SALVATION is a FREE GIFT FROM GOD the Very moment you GENUINELY BELIEVE, RECEIVING HIM AS LORD, meaning MASTER.

NoNameMcgeeSenior Member
#74,458

1 john 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isaiah 53:11 - He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

____________
praise God for delievering me from the false doctrine which put my salvation on my own shoulders

and showing to me to trust in Jesus

😏
_________
Ephesians 4
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

________

God is a wonderful loving Father to His children, though stern and ready to chasten for wrong doing
________
Hebrews 12:7-9
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
_________

a wicked doctrine which teaches even if you are now made new

now His son

and you sin

that He will cast you out

is not biblical

despite the many confused, or blind who push that teaching of man


...no
He corrects His children as a loving Father building them up and working in them to produce fruit

##########################
My views

Angels were also called sons of God.(Genesis 6:1-4)


Lucifer and his followers were angels who rebelled against God and suffered the consequence of their actions, they were cast out from the presence of God in heaven.


Satan the devil is Lucifer who once was a son of God who became proud and led a rebellion in heaven. He became the enemy of God and is now the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the Prince of this world, the deceiver, the father of lies and all the liars and workers of iniquity, who reject and disobey the Word, the teachings and instructions, the laws and commands of God the Holy One of Israel.(isaiah 5:20-24)


... Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the Prince of this world will be driven out. John 12:31


...and in regard to judgment, because the Prince of this world now stands condemned. John 16:11


.. As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are DISOBEDIENT. Ephesians 2:1-2


The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when THE SONS OF GOD went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.Genesis 6:4


...And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them. Jude 1:6-10


If the angels who were once called the sons of God were cast out and imprisoned in darkness WHILE WAITING for God’s judgment, while: the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.(Romans 9:4-5), Paul said to them: Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER.
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED THAT YOU CONTINUE in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF.(Romans 11:17-22)


... Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; WAIT ‘TILL THE LORD COMES. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. AT THAT TIME each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? 1 Corinthians 4:5-7


Jesus said to them, “IF GOD WERE YOUR FATHER, YOU WOULD LOVE ME, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”(john 8:42-47)

“If you love me, you will obey what I command.(john 14:15)

If I will obey God, do I love Him or not?

You say that only those who have a genuine saving FAITH will and can obey God. If I am obeying God, do I have a genuine saving FAITH?

IF I CLAIM, to have a genuine saving FAITH but I would teach and preach that salvation is by grace through faith ALONE void of any sort of good works of righteousness which includes obedience to God's laws and commands, DO I REALLY LOVE GOD?

Didn't Jesus say that:

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. John 14:21,23-24

To preach the gospel unto all nations...and teach them to obey
Matthew 28 :18-20

...that if we want to enter LIFE, we should obey the commandments
Matthew 19-16-

...that if anyone does not take his cross and follow Him is not worthy of Him. Matthew 13:37-42

Now, apostle John said:

If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 1 John 1:6

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6

Thus the apostle Paul said;

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Ephesians 5:6

John 1:1-5
The Eternal Word
(Gen. 1:1—2:3)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

John 1:14

The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Hey bro,

what is salvation? It is Gods love poured out on us, we love because god loved us, where is the greatest love God shared? The cross. Love was shown on the cross, (no greater love has anyone than he die for the one he loves). And that love is poured out the moment we are saved,

In this manner, salvation (the pouring out of Gods love) produces obedience.

I often hear works-salvationists ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" in Romans 6:16 and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow" saving faith in Christ are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works.

There are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants of sin unto death, or servants of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness." Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

We must first obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 1:16) in order to become righteous/accounted as righteous. *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" and are produced "out of" faith.

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart (not just with the head) one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.

What Questions?

The Last question you asked, I answered in depth and you said "Good answer"? I simply didn't want to let you change the subject this time, and show me the same courtesy and honesty I showed you.

I guess this is something your religion must be against.

But to show I LOVE the Scriptures, ALL of them, and to not return Evil for Evil, I will answer your latest question even though you didn't have the decency or common courtesy to answer mine.

First, why as he talking to them.

16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.

This would suggest that this religion had created images of God in the Likeness of something, maybe a long haired, very handsome man, maybe a golden calf, they are both the same spiritually.

17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?

These would be the great religious minds of the day who presided over the Mainstream Religions of that time.

19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.

21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)

So this is the circumstance Paul was found in. He was speaking to Jews in a synagogue who had created images of God in the likeness of something made of stone, or gold, or wood (Paper even)

22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

So your statement about "Turning "BACK" to God is brought into question here. It would seem these people may have heard about the invisible god, but had not found Him yet. They would need to "turn to God" if He was never known to them.


24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26 And hath made of one blood all nations (Jew and Gentile) of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, (Not "find Him again") though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

This is the run up to the question you asked me about the following scriptures.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

So you asked my thoughts, I'm not sure why you switched gears from my post.

But it seems evident to me that, in my words, Paul was in a religious town which Jews who had a synagogue. They worshipped gods but not the God of Abraham.

He saw all the images of God and was moved to warn them of such man made behavior and taught them of the invisible God.

I assume there were scriptures in this synagogue and that Paul disputed with them regarding the scriptures as he did with other Jews of the reagion.

Acts 17:
1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

The point here it seems is that there were Mainstream Religions which were preaching doctrines that were foreign to the Bible. Paul told them that it was necessary that even though they were Jews, they still needed to repent (Change) from their idolatrous religion, and "turn to" the invisible God of the Bible.

Not sure how this relates to the questions I kindly asked you?

why should any of us answer any of your questions? you will ignore them, tell us we are deceived , tell us we are following the commandments of men, then ask more questions.

Jesus was fully God and fully man. Trinity is truth. oneness is a lie.

You didn't answer the question Billy. When did the Flesh and Blood man, Jesus, become the root? Was He the "Root" when He was born? Or at the age of 5?

Or as a man, did He "Learn" obedience and follow a foundation that was already laid?

Why must you guys always play these word games to keep from having to answer simple questions? Is this not a Bible discussion forum for crying out loud?

AMEN.....the FREE IRREVOCABLE GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE by GRACE though FAITH given at the MOMENT of INITIAL BELIEF........

NO...he is not saved yet and too be frank, the Jesus he believes in has no power to save........His JESUS RISKED it ALL to die on the cross, His JESUS is not the root, but has been GRAFTED into the root, HIS JESUS held no deity, His JESUS was created when he came in the flesh......and on and on and on and on and on...........!!!

AMEN Brother......^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <--THIS

Imagine that statement......and yet the workers for will still stand before JESUS in the "MANY GROUPING" claiming their right to enter based upon their works......the same drivel pushed in here by the working for Cainologists and Pharisees.............to no avail tragically.

Post.....you can quote it and answer it 50 different ways to Sunday and he will not be able to wrap his head around the truth...when one devalues JESUS, the deity of JESUS, believes he too was grafted into the root, denies all three aspects of GOD, rejects truth, believes he only has the truth and is not open to learning and instruction....he will never get it...ever!

There are a few of mine you have not answered either.
I'll just quote Bible verses like you do.

Yes,

I just don't believe it means the destruction of the Word of God.

"Think not that I come to destroy the Law and Prophets"

I can see how the obvious answer to this question might sting you a little.

If you don't want to answer, I understand. The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time didn't answer either.