A BIBLICAL EXAMINATION OF CALVINISM

Have you read the parable of the sower? The word of God can penetrate the heart of a lost man, but can be taken away from him.

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Well I am still waiting for someone on CC to explain a biblical view of Calvinism since I will agree there are so many variations and interpretations that I am not sure which is the real Calvinism

Our God is a holy righteous God who perfers mercy over judgement. He who created all things sits in the judgement seat for he is worthy.
Now if God had chosen only an elect people then how could he judge righteously to those who never had a chance???

Why would they suffer endless torment for not even having a hope.
If man is created in God's image all men and women how could God deny himself?

Imo there are 3 things that make up the elect.

1...loving God with all your might.

2. Loving your neighbor

3. Honoring the son and keeping his commandments.

There are many Christian's in the world. But not all are saved. As long as Jesus is in there beliefs they are referred as Christian. The title really means nothing.
What really matters is what God calls you.

I think I'm going to start a new thread called AN UNBIBLICAL EXAMINATION OF CALVINISM...

that oughta keep people on their toes.

...

Well I was more looking for biblical support rather than a John Calvin support.

I am sure you could easily defend why salvation is by grace and not by works, I have seen you do that with ease and completely on point and irrefutably.

However, I cannot see scripture supporting election, as in God chooses, I was thinking you as an individual would be able to speak to why you believe this is true using scripture.

...... I can go back to Calvin but I just do not see him making a good case either for election as he defines it.

There is simply no where else to go with this if you don't believe God is omniscient. I'm seriously shocked to learn some Christians don't believe that.

God is Omniscient - Old Testament Evidence
“Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please” (Isaiah 46:9-10).

“Who can fathom the Spirit of the LORD, or instruct the LORD as his counselor? Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him, and who taught him the right way? Who was it that taught him knowledge, or showed him the path of understanding?” (Isaiah 40:13-14).

“Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD” (Psalm 139:4).

“O LORD, you have searched me and you know me. You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways” (Psalm 139:1-3).

“My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. How precious to me are your thoughts, God! How vast is the sum of them! Were I to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand—when I awake, I am still with you” (Psalm 139:15-16).

“Can anyone teach knowledge to God, since he judges even the highest?” (Job 21:22).

“He determines the number of the stars and calls them each by name. Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit” (Psalm 147:4-5).

“And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever” (1 Chronicles 28:9).

“Do you know how the clouds hang poised, those wonders of him who has perfect knowledge?” (Job 37:16).

“From heaven the LORD looks down and sees all mankind; from his dwelling place he watches all who live on earth—he who forms the hearts of all, who considers everything they do” (Psalm 33:13-15).

God is Omniscient – The New Testament Evidence
“Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!” (Romans 11:33).

“Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account” (Hebrews 4:13).

“Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows” (Luke 12:7).

“Whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything” (1 John 3:20).

“Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered” (Matthew 10:29-30).

Election by God is really common sense for the bible believing, bible understanding Christian.

If Salvation is by Grace through Faith and not of works, and No one can come to the Lord unless they are drawn by the Father, Then it is God who chooses the Saved.

We have Gods Election all through the Bible. God chose Abel over Cain. God chose Jacob over Esau. God chose Israel over Canaan. God chose the Hebrews over the Egyptians. And on and on.

It is not until we get to the wishful thinking that men are in charge that most people try to throw election out and say that ALL men are elected and all they have to do is pray and they're in. Then God HAS to save them.

They're is a reason why one is chosen and one is not. We don't exactly see what it is. We just know its there.

I personally think its to show the goodness and Power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

If Salvation is by Grace through Faith and not of works, and No one can come to the Lord unless they are drawn by the Father, Then it is God who chooses the Saved.

Since God desires the salvation of all human beings, don't you think He would choose all, and that all would be saved?

Take Israel. God chose Israel and yet all of Israel was not saved. Indeed the majority of Jews rejected Christ. and until one can address that anomaly, one can only say that God DESIRES the salvation of all, therefore He cannot choose some for salvation. That would be contradictory.

Since God desires the salvation of all human beings, don't you think He would choose all, and that all would be saved?

Take Israel. God chose Israel and yet all of Israel was not saved. Indeed the majority of Jews rejected Christ. and until one can address that anomaly, one can only say that God DESIRES the salvation of all, therefore He cannot choose some for salvation. That would be contradictory.

There is nothing easier. Just read official calvinistic creeds.

The canons of Dordrecht.

The second helvetic confession.

The heidelberg catechism.

This is the real calvinism. At least in the scope of Switzerland and the rest of Europe. Every individual calvinist will differ in something, you can wait for eternity if you want to get it officially and wholy from individuals. Its like with every other system. If you want to know it really, go to the source, do not ask people on streets.

And Romans 9:21 correlates with the following:

Jeremiah 18:1-13 -

18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.
12 And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord; Ask ye now among the heathen [the Gentiles], who hath heard such things: the virgin of Israel hath done a very horrible thing.


Then Romans 9:26/Hos1:10 [re: ISRAEL] "And it shall come to pass, that in the place where IT WAS SAID UNTO THEM, YE are not My people, there shall they be called the children of the loving God."

...and Romans 9:25/Hos2:23b [re: the GENTILES] "...I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved."


...and then Romans 11:25-29 - "As concerning the gospel, they [Israel] are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they [Israel] are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentence/irrevocable."


...much more could be said on this...


[the context of Romans 9-11 being primarily "nations": "Israel [singular nation]" and "the Gentiles [plural nations]"... and "God's governmental ways upon the earth" through them; see also 11:32]

Paul says the election, Israel, are enemies of the gospel. See Romans 11. Israel is beloved of God because they were elected by God concerning the seed of Jesus Christ.

Election never, never, never has to do with the salvation of the soul but always points to service. There are elect angels, an elect nation (Israel), the elect based upon grace, and Jesus Christ who is God's elect. Did Jesus need saving?

So devil is the one deciding? Why is he able to take away the word for some, but not for all?

But I digress, Romans 9:20 is in full swing today and many attempt to d away with God's ways and deem him unfair.