Jewish & Gentile Relationship

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Oct 8, 2018
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Did you know that there is evidence, perhaps not conclusive yet, that most Jewish people are not of the biblical lineage but rather converts from a latter time, after the time of Christ, recent DNA studies is suggesting sometime during Roman rule?

If this is true, then most present-day Orthodox Jews to which you refer are in fact gentiles and not Jews.:unsure:
a) I would like to see this proof both physically but more importantly Biblically. If this is true, then G-d (Heaven Forbid) has not kept His promise to Avraham, nor Moshe, nor the rest of the Jewish people and in that case, you should ditch the bible...

b) Are the 10 Tribes mixed up? YES. If this is what you are referring too, then I agree 100%. This is the purpose of the 2nd Temple Destruction and Yeshua's command to go to all Nations. Why? Because 1. When Jews are exiled, they can bring in the righteousness that is in the Diaspora both Jew or Gentile (because the righteous souls of Adam must be rectified) and their harvest is "plenty" or 10 fold. 2. When the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel were exiled from Judah, they "intermingled" and yes their souls are mixed in Gentiles.

What is the beauty of this? Today....there are more converts to Judaism from Christianity, than any time ever in history and x 100 in the last 10 years. Why? Because of Jewish souls within Gentiles (just like the righteous Egyptians who joined Israel in the Exodus) are being rectified. How? Through the Kosher understanding of Yeshua. It is true, many converts "verbally" express denial in the "unkosher jesus" but in truth, they cannot deny that it is Yeshua's Spirit that caused them to drive to Judaism.

c) But eh, just ask Paul, he is the one who said to the Jew 1st...tell me why he said such words?

d) Jews keep track of their lineage like a fat kid knows where his cake is. Want proof? Just look at the track record Matthew or John kept of Yeshua. It goes to show how precious Jews hold their lineage, more than any "outside" science could ever prove. Why? Because what G-d commands trumps all!

If you can answer these questions, I'll gladly accept your comment. If not, you should probably rethink what you stated and know that it is a lie. :)

Shalom brother!
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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Did you know that there is evidence, perhaps not conclusive yet, that most Jewish people are not of the biblical lineage but rather converts from a latter time, after the time of Christ, recent DNA studies is suggesting sometime during Roman rule?

If this is true, then most present day Orthodox Jews to which you refer are in fact gentiles and not Jews.:unsure:
Ha - Fake Jews BigSmile.gif
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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It seems to me the Jewish and gentile relationship we are to have is clearly spelled out in scripture. We are to let God judge and take care of their relationship to Him. We are to tell them of the gospel if they ask or are receptive. We are to honor that they are God's special people because God used them (uses?) to show gentiles about God.
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
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a) I would like to see this proof both physically but more importantly Biblically. If this is true, then G-d (Heaven Forbid) has not kept His promise to Avraham, nor Moshe, nor the rest of the Jewish people and in that case, you should ditch the bible...

b) Are the 10 Tribes mixed up? YES. If this is what you are referring too, then I agree 100%. This is the purpose of the 2nd Temple Destruction and Yeshua's command to go to all Nations. Why? Because 1. When Jews are exiled, they can bring in the righteousness that is in the Diaspora both Jew or Gentile (because the righteous souls of Adam must be rectified) and their harvest is "plenty" or 10 fold. 2. When the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel were exiled from Judah, they "intermingled" and yes their souls are mixed in Gentiles.

What is the beauty of this? Today....there are more converts to Judaism from Christianity, than any time ever in history and x 100 in the last 10 years. Why? Because of Jewish souls within Gentiles (just like the righteous Egyptians who joined Israel in the Exodus) are being rectified. How? Through the Kosher understanding of Yeshua. It is true, many converts "verbally" express denial in the "unkosher jesus" but in truth, they cannot deny that it is Yeshua's Spirit that caused them to drive to Judaism.

c) But eh, just ask Paul, he is the one who said to the Jew 1st...tell me why he said such words?

d) Jews keep track of their lineage like a fat kid knows where his cake is. Want proof? Just look at the track record Matthew or John kept of Yeshua. It goes to show how precious Jews hold their lineage, more than any "outside" science could ever prove. Why? Because what G-d commands trumps all!

If you can answer these questions, I'll gladly accept your comment. If not, you should probably rethink what you stated and know that it is a lie. :)

Shalom brother!
Actually what I believe udnergrace is talking about is a in-house debate among Jews looking into their genetic history. There are some European Jews that don’t share any genetic history. Still there is a huge percentage that do . This dose have a problem though among the proponents of right of return. The issue is that a large number of the Palestinians also show Jewish ancestry.
It’s a story that pops up from time to time . It’s a bit hard to figure out .
Blessings
Bill
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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Did you know that there is evidence, perhaps not conclusive yet, that most Jewish people are not of the biblical lineage but rather converts from a latter time, after the time of Christ, recent DNA studies is suggesting sometime during Roman rule?

If this is true, then most present day Orthodox Jews to which you refer are in fact gentiles and not Jews.:unsure:
That makes these verses come to light pretty well;

Revelation 3:9-11
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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a) I would like to see this proof both physically but more importantly Biblically. If this is true, then G-d (Heaven Forbid) has not kept His promise to Avraham, nor Moshe, nor the rest of the Jewish people and in that case, you should ditch the bible...
God has kept His Word.

The Jewish people have rejected it.

All people who convert to Judaism do the same.

Galatians 3:6-14
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

How can people who think they are so smart be so dumb? Well that's answered biblically as well.

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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a) I would like to see this proof both physically but more importantly Biblically. If this is true, then G-d (Heaven Forbid) has not kept His promise to Avraham, nor Moshe, nor the rest of the Jewish people and in that case, you should ditch the bible...

b) Are the 10 Tribes mixed up? YES. If this is what you are referring too, then I agree 100%. This is the purpose of the 2nd Temple Destruction and Yeshua's command to go to all Nations. Why? Because 1. When Jews are exiled, they can bring in the righteousness that is in the Diaspora both Jew or Gentile (because the righteous souls of Adam must be rectified) and their harvest is "plenty" or 10 fold. 2. When the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel were exiled from Judah, they "intermingled" and yes their souls are mixed in Gentiles.

What is the beauty of this? Today....there are more converts to Judaism from Christianity, than any time ever in history and x 100 in the last 10 years. Why? Because of Jewish souls within Gentiles (just like the righteous Egyptians who joined Israel in the Exodus) are being rectified. How? Through the Kosher understanding of Yeshua. It is true, many converts "verbally" express denial in the "unkosher jesus" but in truth, they cannot deny that it is Yeshua's Spirit that caused them to drive to Judaism.

c) But eh, just ask Paul, he is the one who said to the Jew 1st...tell me why he said such words?

d) Jews keep track of their lineage like a fat kid knows where his cake is. Want proof? Just look at the track record Matthew or John kept of Yeshua. It goes to show how precious Jews hold their lineage, more than any "outside" science could ever prove. Why? Because what G-d commands trumps all!

If you can answer these questions, I'll gladly accept your comment. If not, you should probably rethink what you stated and know that it is a lie. :)

Shalom brother!
deceivers waxing worse and worse.

Now you are openly promoting judaism and REJOICING about the fact that there are more converts to JUDAISM -FROM- CHRISTIANITY today than any time ever in history.

So you are HAPPY about apostasy from Christianity? Major deceiver. Also you are talking some kabbalah nonsense, it just gets WORSE and WORSE, just like the Bible predicted.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9)For "IN HIM DWELLETH" all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
I think, you are missing the point here. The Father dwells IN His only begotten. YET? The only begotten is NOT the Father! The Holy Spirit dwells IN the only begotten. YET? The only begotten, is NOT the Holy Spirit!
But all their works they do for "to be seen of men": they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.Mathew 23:5-11
IMHO? This goes for more then Jews! :unsure:

Revelation 2
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

(paraphrased)

Just like when God instructed Gideon to "raise up an army." He instructed Gideon to bring the men to the river and drink. Those who cupped the water in their hands, and carefully separated that which they didn't want to ingest BEFORE drinking? REJECT!

Only those who dropped on their knees, and gulped the water down, taking no regard, of what was in the "river", did God ACCEPT!

The "moral of the story" is: God will accept those who drink FULLY from "His River!"

From those who "separate" that which they will drink? Ehhh? "SEE YA!" "Wouldn't wanna BE YA!" :unsure:
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I would like to see this proof both physically but more importantly Biblically. If this is true, then G-d (Heaven Forbid) has not kept His promise to Avraham, nor Moshe, nor the rest of the Jewish people and in that case, you should ditch the bible...
Ditch the word of God? The believers one source of hearing Him not seen called the hearing of faith.... not of our own selves as the imaginations of ones sinful heart.?

Why is it that you think the flesh could profit for something? Do you think God is a man as us?

Physical in respect to the temporal flesh of a Jew? Apposed to the spiritual eternal, in respect to our best teacher..... Our Father in heaven not seen?

He informs us not to call men Rabbi/Master on earth one is in heaven .He warns us of those he calls antichrists that do try and seduce Christians into believing we do need man seen to teach us .I would think .The lie from the father of lies.

When the Son of man Jesus was confronted with those who glory in the flesh as that seen the temporal between the work of our invisible father in heaven the spiritual not seen . He said its the unseen eternal Spirt is that does quicken our soul. His flesh he informs us profits for nothing. It would seem you would hope its the other way around like the disciples that walked as way in un belief (no faith) the froward nations, natural man .They believed the flesh did profit

Have you been born again as a new creature?

What is it about Jewish flesh that you would put some hope in? The color?

God who is not a man as us put on the sinful flesh of a Jew to condemn sin in the flesh by giving a person a new spirit the Spirit of Christ in us and not of us.. God who is not a man as us does not have a Jewish Spirit .

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

b) Are the 10 Tribes mixed up? YES. If this is what you are referring too, then I agree 100%. This is the purpose of the 2nd Temple Destruction and Yeshua's command to go to all Nations. Why? Because 1. When Jews are exiled, they can bring in the righteousness that is in the Diaspora both Jew or Gentile (because the righteous souls of Adam must be rectified) and their harvest is "plenty" or 10 fold. 2. When the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel were exiled from Judah, they "intermingled" and yes their souls are mixed in Gentiles
.


Why did he put and end to that parable involving the destruction that represented that temporal time period of Kings in Israel? It is written in Hebrews because the time of reformation came .Restoring the form of Government to the period of Judges before there were kings in Israel The use of a Jew outwardly in a parable as shadows for that temporal period of time had to come to the end.

The genealogy that God had set up to trace the spiritual seed Christ ended with the birth of the Son of man. A genealogy of a Jew today would sever no purpose no fruit in knowing Christ any more adequately. They have been cut off .The time of Jacobs trouble (no outward representative) has been upon them for thousands of years


Matthew 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

Its what happens when God moves his blessing things wither away

Mark 11:21And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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What is the beauty of this? Today....there are more converts to Judaism from Christianity, than any time ever in history and x 100 in the last 10 years. Why? Because of Jewish souls within Gentiles (just like the righteous Egyptians who joined Israel in the Exodus) are being rectified. How? Through the Kosher understanding of Yeshua. It is true, many converts "verbally" express denial in the "unkosher jesus" but in truth, they cannot deny that it is Yeshua's Spirit that caused them to drive to Judaism.

c) But eh, just ask Paul, he is the one who said to the Jew 1st...tell me why he said such words?
No need to ask Paul all that is needed is recorded. Before his born again conversion he did not have the Spirit of Christ. He followed a law of the fathers as a false zeal for knowing God.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Because the unconverted Jew who walked by sight after the Jewish flesh hoping it could profit for something...….. they murdered the misperceived competition as in out of sight out of mind . They constantly challenged all things written in the law and the prophets(sola scriptura) They again and again tried to make it (sola scriptura) to no effect with oral traditions as a law of the fathers. A law of men that they held above our father in heaven. The spiritual unseen law of faith . We walk or understand the things not seen by our new faith we are freely given . Not of our own selves after the imaginations of ones mind. We are, I believe to have the mind of Christ and not that of men as the wisdom of men. But how can we hear God and not men would seem to be the quest we all face? How do we seek His approval of one not seen ? Can we go above that which is written by venerating men seen as did Saul before his conversion ?

Saul like all who walk by sight followed a law of men that they called the law of the fathers. By seeking after the High Priest seen
they called that manner law of the fathers they thought was perfect law. The law of the fathers, provided a false zealously toward God. They were trusting the things seen as if the Kingdom of God is of this world .Something the apostate Jew turned upside down, again and a again and therefore in the end it takes away the understanding of the person's approval we are to seek after according to his loving commandment.

Study, divide...……. seek my approval .What a beautiful commandment .


Acts 22:1-4 King James Version (KJV) Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
(And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the "law of the fathers", and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

That turned out to be false zealously. Being zealous for the things seen (themselves ) and not God not seen.

We can see by the use of the phrase "law of the fathers" it speaks of the things of men seen the temporal a false zeal for knowing God not seen . That law of the fathers apposes the law of God our father in heaven. The law of faith.

Changing his denomination, from the Pharisees with Sadducees to the Nazarene denomination Paul was now under attack by the law of the fathers (laws of men) . there goal was to make Paul out of sight as in out of mind as the unregenerate (no faith)

Acts 24:4-7 (KJV)Notwithstanding, that I be not further tedious unto thee, I pray thee that thou wouldest hear us of thy clemency a few words. For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,

Their law of what they call law of fathers and not the true law of our father in heaven .His law that requires faith . He commands us to call no man father on earth for he is the one spiritual father of all spirits not seen .

Again they tried to accuse Paul of violating their law a oral traditions of men . Paul in effect informed them that he was trusting sola scriptura (all things written in the law and the prophets ). They accused sola scriptura was heresy. Paul replied to them "worship I the God of my fathers," they were saying "worship I the God as my fathers," A law of men seen .They continued to call men on earth fathers as a law of men. turning things upside down taking away the understanding of scripture alone. No laws of men (Isaiah 29:16)

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so "worship I the God of my fathers," believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

d) Jews keep track of their lineage like a fat kid knows where his cake is. Want proof? Just look at the track record Matthew or John kept of Yeshua. It goes to show how precious Jews hold their lineage, more than any "outside" science could ever prove. Why? Because what G-d commands trumps all!

If you can answer these questions, I'll gladly accept your comment. If not, you should probably rethink what you stated and know that it is a lie. :)
What would be the purpose for keeping their lineage today.? Are they hoping Christ will come in the flesh for another outward demonstration of the lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world? How many demonstrations are needed ?

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.2 Corinthians 5:16-17
 
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This goes for more then Jews!
As new creatures we are to know no man after the flesh

Yes it goes for all sinners. God puts no difference between the Jew that he used up until the time of reformation . He purifies the hearts of all sinners as a work of his faith or labor of His love. Remember who is that does work in us to both will and do His good pleasure. (imputed righteousness)

As one of the better things that accompanies salvation according to Hebrews 6. He promises he will not forget the love you have offered towards his name as his authority .

Acts 15:8-10 King James Version (KJV)And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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My name is Mike and I truly have a heart for all people on this earth to know G-d and His Messiah Yeshua/Jesus. It is evident that the church has done a wonderful if not an excelling job at reaching various nations (especially in the last 50 years), and spreading the word of G-d to the best of their abilities. But does it not stump you for one minute, that we are not reaching Orthodox Jews? One needs to go no further than any of the Gospels or Romans 11 to recognize one major part of being a "Christian" or "Follower of the Messiah", is to reach the Jewish people about their 100% Kosher/Jewish Messiah. To go even further, we know that Yeshua/Jesus has not completed the FULL mission of what a Messiah must do and the Jews call this Mashiach Ben Yosef (Messiah Son of Yosef) and he will need to return as Mashiach Ben David. Now, this is not to disregard the teachings of Sha'ul/Paul to the Gentiles and their non-observance of the Torah, but as Colossians 1:9-13 teaches us, we even as Gentiles have the Spirit to KNOW G-d's wisdom (Torah), in order to "provoke" Jews back to their Messiah.

Question: Why are we either not reaching this goal of redeeming the Orthodox Jewish Community OR why are we not questioning ourselves for not fulfilling such a major part of our role, which will ring in the Messiah's 2nd coming?
Isn't there something in Romans 11 about a partial hardening happening to the Jews?
 
Oct 8, 2018
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God has kept His Word.

The Jewish people have rejected it.

All people who convert to Judaism do the same.

Galatians 3:6-14
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

How can people who think they are so smart be so dumb? Well that's answered biblically as well.

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
A Jew who had Torah (G-d's perfection) was blinded of course. Where does it say G-d gave up? Did Yeshua give up? Did G-d give up? Are you told to do labour and sacrifice yourself, or sit behind your Messiah and watch from the bleachers?

b) Jews feel away and you as a Gentile "think" you know any better? Slab a few verses together, sing "I love Jesus" and that makes you greater? That is so low of a human being to do to any fellow human. For "who is thy neighbor". This is why I defend Jews from the PEOPLE who are actually supposed to HELP them the MOST! ALL of human kind, no matter HOW FAR they are...should be helped and cared for. Where is your love?
 
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??

Rhymes with "fake news" too funny I just got it. :cool:
You make a joke of the people who you are graphed into, the people who birthed Yeshua....righteous or unrighteous, Jew or Gentile, what positivity or profit is there from just words?
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
You make a joke of the people who you are graphed into, the people who birthed Yeshua....righteous or unrighteous, Jew or Gentile, what positivity or profit is there from just words?
Two simple questions--------
How does a Gentile obtain eternal life?
How does a Jew obtain eternal life?
 
Oct 8, 2018
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Two simple questions--------
How does a Gentile obtain eternal life?
How does a Jew obtain eternal life?
Following and Believing Yeshua. Now how does that = mocking anyone?

But here is a question, what does Yeshua himself command for those who not only want to be his followers but for those (in all his parables) that will be received?