Predestination or free wiil.

Predestination has EVERYTHING to do with salvation.

We are predestined to be conformed to his image.

We are predestined in christ to be holy and without blame

Everyone he predestined he called. He justified, and he will glorify. (No and ifs or buts, no maybes, he WILL

We were predestined to be adopted as sons

We who are predestined wil obtain and inheritance (once our predestined state becomes active through faith in Christ

By predeterming the amount and direction of light, you can very precisely create the amount of darkness you think is needed. You are not the author of the darkness, though.

Very philosophical answer. But I like it.

You know what trofimus at the end of the day, iron sharpens iron. You are a stand up guy. I like you

There is a good song, "Whsoever Willo to the Lord May Come." I believe this.

Many confuse the fact that all who are saved are indeed foreknown by God with predestination.

When we come to God for Salvation, He hears us, and we are then foreknown from this age.

When my heart was broken and dI prayed to "You Are Who You Are," He answered me and drew me to Jesus Christ, Yeshua.
Whosoever will to the Lord may come, amen.

Of course "without the help of man".

But NOT "without the obedience to Gospel". That's your blind spot, since God is not the one who obeys the Gospel.

Could you refute my point in post #329
WHy does God command repentance, obedience, to humble ourselves, if we have no ability to do so? Isnt that what the wicked servants of Pharaoh did in the Exodus verses I quoted? Command bricks without giving straw!

Lol, thanks.

Can you answer me this:

God can regenerate everyone, if He wanted to? Right?
God says He wants all to come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved. 1 tim 2:1-4 so WHY isnt everyone saved? God could just give the gift of repentance to everyone.

Did you know that you can never win a debate with a calvinist by saying God foreknows and then predestines according to that?
The reason is that they will drown you in the greek word proginosko which is an active verb, not a passive knowing. Its like preordaining almost.

Predestination is a doctrine given to those already saved. Those who are in Christ will one day be conformed to His image. Those who are in Christ will one day be holy and without blame before Him. Those who are in Christ will receive the redemption, the adoption of sons. Those who are in Christ will obtain an inheritance.

No one is predestined before they are saved. Salvation comes first. One must be placed in Christ to receive those spiritual blessings in heavenly places.

This is one of those debates that from the predestination point of view is meaningless. Why? Because God has simply predestined me to believe in free will, so nothing can change that.

The Bible teaches both, free will and predestination. Instead of choosing just one, we must reconcile both.
But you ask: Where is free will taught? For example: When God commands His people to repent, and says "but ye would not" or something similar to that.

It would make no sense for God to ask people to repent, when it is infact His fault they wont repent. All God has to do is give them repentance and faith, as the calvinists believe. Yet God refuses to give people this grace, and continues to ask and command them to repent. This is not logical, nor biblical, and just makes God out to be the same as Pharaoh in these verses:

Exodus 5:16 There is no straw given unto thy servants, and they say to us, Make brick: and, behold, thy servants are beaten; but the fault is in thine own people.

Pharaoh was asking something unreasonable.

Of course God knows everything, but that is not even the issue.

All of these passages below (and many others) assume and imply that men have free will, and must either choose to obey the Gospel or disobey the Gospel.

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve... (Joshua 24:15)
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Rom 10:16)

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

Please note the words "will" and "freely". God did not create robots, but mankind in His own image and likeness. Which includes freedom to choose God and Christ, or not.

We are foreknown by God before we are born by natural birth into this world.

John 6: This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

I think it is quite clear what Gods will is. And who those people are who WILL recieve eternal life and be raised.

We are foreknown by God from this age of darkness when we come to Him and are saed by Jesus Christ.

Hm, I think that the faith that justifies is the faith real Christians have from the beginning.

The "whosoever" people and the "everyone who sees" people are restricted to only those who have been regenerated as explained in Eph 2, especially in verse 5. According to 1 Cor 2:14, we, as natural men, void of the Spirit, cannot discern spiritual things. God says only his sheep hear his voice.

Sorry, Read what I posted. You can not read those passages and continue in with what you are preaching.
You just saying so does not make it true

As the Lord has seen everything from beginning to end at the onset of His creation; they whom He then knew before they were born, are they who would choose to believe in Him, which is to believe in love and loving their neighbor.
If you believe in love, and loving your neighbor, you are then known by God.
If you do not believe in love, and not loving your neighbor, you are then not known by God, and He never foreknew you.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.