Not By Works

I don't understand what's so foolish about preaching?

Mr. dcon, you know I respect you, can you please explain, and I wish to love like you do, and I want to look up to you as my brother and my rolemodel who is not afraid of expending tireless effort on sharing correct doctrine, believing that in this world in may seem like the most vain activity possible ever, but in God's eye, ever button or letter you type is worth it dcon

*every

and I can trust that God is solvereign, he allowed the typo so I can correct it which somehow emphasize for your encouragement, every, not in vain

My view on the following verse.....especially the quoted part which you asked about...

KJV---For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Contemporary English Version---God was wise and decided not to let the people of this world use their wisdom to learn about him. Instead, God chose to save only those who believe the foolish message we preach.

To God it is pleasing or acceptable to save men through the preaching of the gospel and not by or through the wisdom which the world has to offer.....and based upon the wisdom of the world the message which we preach is foolish........that is how I view it.....

dcon, I hope you do not mind my putting my 2 cents worth in this discussion.

That is an expression, that the world, and especially Jews, think it is FOOLISHNESS, to preach that you can be SAVED by just having the kind of FAITH where you totally trust Jesus for your SALVATION. Those Jews and the rest of the world, thinks they must do something to be saved. No, it is A FREE GIFT FROM GOD.

1 Corinthians 1:21-23 (NKJV)
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,

1 Corinthians 1:25 (NKJV)
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Every time I read that verse, it reminds me of the FOOLISHNESS of EVOLUTION.

Evolution wants to believe everything started at or near ZERO, SO THEY CAN LEAVE GOD OUT OF IT.

Ask an evolutionist, "WHERE DID THE BIG BALL COME FROM?" Then sit back and watch the steam come out of his ears.

GOD SAYS HE CREATED EVERYTHING IN IT'S ADULT STAGE, AND I BELIEVE THE BIBLE. Therefore, the starting point is millions of years past the Scientists want to assume starting point is.

The world says it is FOOLISH to believe the BIBLE, when it says GOD CREATED.

GOD SAYS HE NEVER CHANGES, Mal. 3:6.

Therefore when JESUS Created more fish, and more fish at the Feeding of the 5000 and the 4000; HE SHOWED US HOW HE CREATED ALL THINGS.

If we are to be enslaved in the fear of having to produce works to find favor, salvation, adoption etc etc... then many of us would turn away. Because many people don’t see the works in front of them as accountable. The child they are struggling to raise, the marriage they are fighting for, the inner most part of their flaws they are trying to overcome.... that is all work.... but the greatest of all work.. is to Love.

though the flesh is right about one thing, that the ways of God is like resentment to the flesh,
what the flesh fail to realize is that it's possible that your bad habit and your autopilot is resentful and your intent can still "call upon the name of the Lord and you shall be saved"

the idea of giving up sin can lead to feelings of deprivation, and here's a secret Satan doesn't want you to know: treat that lowly feeling of deprivation, as if God is humbling you, take the opportunity, and if you prefer the teachings from VCO where he said that the saved would want to love and obey God, ask God to help your heart love and obey God, this will take resolve and yes, I do have some apologizing to do, but more importantly we are on the same side, on the same team and we should not be divided over petty issues that Satan can create out of thin air.

and, when you are tempted to remember "but what about my good deeds in the past", consider how the righteousness of Christ exceeds the value of self-righteousness, whatever your good deeds are in the past, consider this "surrender the past, because the past is gone" the past is dead, the present is alive, forget the past, you are praying now as an expression of your salvation, and now is all that matters (and praying is not to gain salvation, even though that's what it feels like, praying for that moment is part of assurance, as dcon have said, you are saved in a microsecond)

and when temptation happen, the most effective prayer is to pray to God to steer your heart "pattern of desire" toward the right direction (the heart is the center, just like Israel)

Satan will continue to harass us, but God is our protector (Satan knows how salvation works anyway)

and Mr. VCO, I apologize for whatever the origin of our misunderstanding, I should have sympathy for the human mind, we can never live forever on this earth, and economic inflation is reason enough to store treasures in heaven, not on earth, where no thieves can steal from you.

the way I try to handle conflict is just as ineffective as trying to deal with sin on our own, we need the hands of God to help us

I wish to say I planned it, but why take pride in that, if it is God who controls all.

let's wipe our slate clean, shake hands with Mr. VCO, give a warm hug to Jesus (not yet physically) and give thanks to God

and leave whatever remaining hate we may have against Satan and leave it at that

I am not aiming to be a "regular", I'm aiming for the book of life

Satan, it's check and mate

by the way, I need to look up what "regular" means

Just remember, You can try all you want, But you will never “make it” based on any works you do. How good you are. How manytimes you go to church or how often you obey the sabbath,

By your power you will never make it, God is staning there, with his hand out, ready to take you where you need to be, all he wants is you to say yes lord. I can’t do it myself. Please take me

Imagine your in a sea that is raging and you are at the end of yourself/ God is there saying I will save you, but you have to stop trying to save yourself. And take my hand. Its the hardest thing to do to place your whole life in the hands of a stranger, it takes total emptyingn of self. Thats why so many people will chose to deny the one way which will save them, as they continue to either deny they are in danger, or continue to try to save themselves.

Dcon is a good Christian. He like many has opinions about the scripture. His blind spot is the creeds. Since they were written by men he rejects them. He ignores the historical reasons for them and their application today. They were created by the early elders for 3 reasons.
1. Defines what a person must believe to be a Christian.
2. A tool to use to teach non Christians the word of God.
3. A standard to define contrary views as heresy.

They were created between 212 and 500. At that time Bibles were hand copied thus very expensive and rare. This was true for all books. Therefore until the printing press was invented it was common practice for people to memorize different sets of knowledge to use in their daily life. Creeds were developed to be used in this manner in addition to selected portions of scripture to help spread the gospel message. Today they serve the same purpose. I have challenged Dcon several times to demonstrate any non Biblical portions of any Creed. No response.

The early elders were dealing with many differences of opinion about many diverse issues and that carries on today. Therefore outside of the creeds it is agree to disagree. An example is the quinquarticular controversy between Calvinism and Armenianism. They each have 5 major points they are diametrically opposed on and have lengthy arguments annotated with scripture references defending their position. Since this falls outside of the creeds it is agree to disagree. There are gospel preaching denominations that follow the spectrum going between both sides of this issue.

Works is not the fruit. The fruit is the result of good works. For instance when you cloth the naked, and feed the poor, and visit the widow and the captive, and you take care of injustice, these are all good works, and the result is one of God's children is relieved of the burden of this life, and the result of be relieved is that they look up to God and thank God for sending them relief. This good works leads to a man or woman believing that there is a God in heaven that is watching over them, and it brings them closer to the KOG.

The fruit of our good works is souls are saved into the KOG. It is not word salad, it is the work of the Lord to save souls, and we are an important part of that saving of souls. So as a new person, born-again, and saved, be willing to be engaged in the work of the Lord and bring forth fruit for his kingdom. Or as John 15:2 tells us: Every branch in me that does not produce fruit, he (God) will take it away. If you are taken away you will not have EL with God, you will be somewhere else.

That is a good feeling to know that you are saved and that God is with you. Can you give us your experience with being engaged in the Lord's work of saving souls? This is not boasting time, it is a legitimate product of being saved and having a new person. I would like all people on the forum to tell us their marvelous experiences of helping Jesus produce fruit for his Kingdom. Thank you. I look forward to your experience, it can benefit all of us.

If I say I will trust in you Lord, am I deceived? If I say I will do the works that you have before ordained for me to do, am I deceived?

That is a good story, you have trusted in the Lord, and you are engaged in the work of the Lord to be part of his kingdom and to reach others to bring them closer to Jesus, because of your love for Jesus, and so his kingdom will expand because of your trutst in him and your good works. It is a powerful combination that carries us to EL.

Hi anointedsinner, you are not "regular", your avatar says you are a "well known member".... but the bible say's you are created in the image and likeness of God's own image. You see the wisdom of the world has not revealed this to us all but the Creator of the Universe has, Godly Wisdom. Once you put your hands to the gospel plow never look back, "check mate to to devil", amen!

Genesis1:26a;27a
26a) "Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness",
27a) So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them;

Philippians4:1,3b
1a) Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you whom I love and long for, my joy and crown, stand firm in the Lord.
3b) help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, "whose names are in the book of life."

A Psalm of King David - Psalm18
"But He caught me, He reach all the way from sky to sea;
pulled me out of that ocean of hate, that enemy chaos,
the void in which I was drowning. He stood me up on a
wide-open field; I stood there saved, surprised to be
loved." Psalm18

no ben , its not a combination of our trust in Christ , and our good works that carries us to Eternal Life

Its placing our faith and trust in Christ ALONE that does that !

Ben, doing good works has NO bearing at all on our salvation. They don't save us, keep us saved nor do they get us into heaven.. Good works are a by-product of our faith. However, works done for the sole purpose of keeping or gaining salvation, are works done in vain..