The Abomination of Desolation

What was the year of Acts 8:1? Apostles stayed in jerusalem, so there could still be time to evangelize others.

There is this documentary on PBS about Jerusalem in 70 AD I saw a couple of years ago, (I can't remember the title), which shows prior to the Roman invasion, Jerusalem had turned into complete lawlessness, with murders, rapes, sodomy, and other crimes being commonplace. Do you think there were aged Apostles evangelizing these type individuals?
And if there were, and a few listened, and they fled to the hills for 1,260 days; what then was the event that followed these 1,260 days to which the bible makes so many references to in the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation?

Before Steven is stoned to death, which precedes (Acts 8:1), we see Peter and other apostles converting thousands in Jerusalem daily to the faith. This conversion to the faith could not have been going on for very long, as all Jerusalem contained fewer than a couple hundred thousand people at most. It is then my speculation that Acts 8:1 could not have been any further along than 40 AD.

The war of Jerusalem lasted from 66 to 70. Historians say that Christians fled in the beginning, not in the end (70 AD). Therefore it would be useful to know what year Acts 8:1 is.

Ok, thats 20/30 years till the destruction of Jerusalem.

The Ruler, the man of lawlessness, the antichrist and the beast, are just different designations referring to the same person. They are all one and the same. However, the beast is that fallen angel/demon who will come up out of the Abyss at the sounding of the 5th trumpet and will empower/possess the man of lawlessness/antichrist. In support of the designations of "the man of lawlessness" and "antichrist" as being the same, consider what Daniel, Jesus and Paul said regarding him which identify those different designations as referring to the same person:

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. ”

"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival. The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them." - 2 Thes.2:8-10

"And the second beast performed great signs to cause even fire from heaven to come down to earth in the presence of the people. Because of the signs it was given to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived those who dwell on the earth, telling them to make an image to the beast that had been wounded by the sword and yet had lived." - Rev.13:14-15

"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed signs on his behalf, by which he deceived those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur." - Rev.19:20

The scriptures above link the different designations of "the ruler, the lawless one, the antichrist and the beast" as being the same person. In Daniel at the end of verse 27, it states "until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." Regarding his demise, Paul mentions the same thing regarding the lawless one when he says, "whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and the majesty of His arrival." Both are referring to what is written regarding the beast in Rev.20, where both "the ruler, antichrist/beast" are thrown alive into the lake of fire alive.

The characteristics that links these different designations as referring to the same person, is Daniel's decree regarding "the ruler" that is said to be poured out on him and Paul's reference to "the man of lawlessness" whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth when returns to the earth to end the age. Both of these are linked by the beast who will empower the ruler/antichrist who along with the false prophet will be thrown alive into the lake of fire.

The ruler, the man of lawlessness, the antichrist, beast = Same person

hello AW... good day to you my friend

I sure you remember we spoke of this before and I know that if we research this on the www that what I say about this goes against what 99 percent of what most Christian theologians have said of Revelations 9,5th horn that Apollyon/Abaddon is "the devil=beast" and all the pictures show him with horns,lol.

The thing about this though to me is that I would be afraid to say that of the angel that is the king of the bottomless pit because of who he is given to harm "those men which have NOT the seal of God in their foreheads" Rev.9:4 it was given to NOT kill them vesre5.

Now if this is the beast and these come up out of the pit why would he torment the ones who do NOT have the mark of God (the ones on his side) at all? If the ones who refuse to worship the image are the ones who are killed Rev. 13:15 and the ones who do are the ones who can buy and sell(in the favor of the beast) Rev. 13:17 then why is the devil attacking his own?

I am as I say outside the camps and only refer to mine own self as "Christian" so I suppose I can ask this without fear of peer pressure. I suppose my disadvantage or advantage is in that I had read and formed my understanding before I knew that everyone said that this was the devil in Rev.9 5th horn,lol. In Rev. 18:11( I pointed this out in post #385) Babylon is who is doing the selling,,,so the 5 foolish virgins would then need to receive the mark and worship the image to be able to "go to those who sell and buy oil" or be killed because they wont...

Hello again,

First of all, I don't care what theologians think, they're just other expositors and are wrong most of the time. What I do care about, is what scripture says. And scripture says, that those demonic locusts have a king over them, which is the angel of the Abyss. It also states that he will be coming out of the Abyss and will be the one who kills the two witnesses. He is the one who empowers the antichrist after he comes out. He is not the Satan/devil, but is another fallen angel called in Hebrew Abaddon and in Greek Apollyon, both meaning destroyer. By the way, many of these so-called theologians are the same ones who are claiming that Jesus has already returned and that all end-time events have already taken place, which gives them zero credibility as far as I am concerned.

Just fyi, the angel of the Abyss will not be the one who harms the inhabitants of the earth with the sting of a scorpion. It is those demonic beings who he has authority over who resemble locusts, who will torment the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of a scorpion.

The reason is because you have your information backwards! The locust demons are "told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only (to harm) those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads." Since the 144,000 out of Israel will be the only ones who will receive the seal of God in their foreheads (Rev.7:4), then the rest of the inhabitants of the earth who are not sealed will be exposed to their torment, because they are not sealed. And the reason for that, is because, this is apart of God's wrath. Remember, it is the sounding of the 5th angels trumpet (holy angel) that releases those demonic beings and initiates that torment, which is one of the seven trumpet judgments. It is God who is using the powers of darkness to carry out His wrath here at the 5th trumpet and the 6th and 7th trumpet as well.

Regarding the "the ruler, the man of lawlessness, the antichrist and the beast," I provided scriptures in the other post which links them together through their demise at Jesus' return to end the age and as well as the miracles, signs and wonders. Both of these details link them as being the same being just having different titles.

Surely you don't think that "the ruler" mentioned in Daniel, "the man of lawlessness" mentioned by Paul, "the antichrist and the beast" mentioned by John, are all referring to different individuals!?

hello again

You most times follow only what the Scriptures say but every time you speak of this you add "demons,demonic beings ect." when it never calls them that why? In 1 Corinthians 15:55-56 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15.htm death is the last enemy...
the sting of death is sin and the power of sin the law... why do you not ever bring up 1Cor.15 speaking of the 5th trumpet?

hello...

Please forgive me I am an old man I don't know how to use apps,cell phones ect. or how to take a post and answer it section by section like you all do,lol

But in the first paragraph of your post you said he is another one of the fallen angels and not satin/devil but he is the one who give power to the antichrist(you mean beast?) but Revelation 13:4 says the dragon is who does. Now if Rev. 12:9 says the dragon,serpent,Devil and Satan are all the same person who is this other person you say gives power to the antichrist/man of sin you speak of?

Seriously? For one, these things described as locusts are coming up out of the Abyss. Do you know what the Abyss is? It is the place that Legion, which was a collective name for many demons, begged Jesus not to send them into - Luke 8:30-31

The Abyss is where Satan will be thrown into and sealed during the thousand year reign of Christ. It is the currently location of that fallen angel/demon referred to as the beast - Rev.20:1-3

The Abyss is a specific place where fallen angels/demonic beings are restricted to by God. Here is the Strong's definition of the Abyss:

"the abyss, unfathomable depth, an especially Jewish conception, the home of the dead and of evil spirits."

I don't agree with the Abyss being the home of the dead and that because I have never read of the spirit of human beings being cast in there. It is Sheol/Hades that the spirits of human beings go at the time of death, not the Abyss.

Let's take a look at these locust creatures and their characteristics:

* They come out of the Abyss

* They resemble locusts

* They will be given power like that of the scorpions of the earth

* They will be told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree

* They will not be given power to kill, but only to torment people with stings link scorpions for five months

* The locusts will look like horses prepared for battle

* They will have something like crowns of gold on their heads

* They will have faces like the faces of men

*They will have hair like that of women

* They will have teeth like those of lions teeth

* They will have breastplates like breastplates of iron

* They will have wings

* They will have tails and stingers like scorpions with which to torment

* They have as king the angel (fallen) of the Abyss, whose name is destroyer

All that said, does the description of them sound like your everyday garden variety locust?

The very fact that the Abyss is being opened to release them should give anyone a hint that they are demonic beings.

They will also be intelligent, as revealed by the fact that "they are told" not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree and are commanded to torment only those who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads for five months.

What kind of locusts do you know of that have tails and stingers like scorpions, or hair like women's hair, or teeth like lions teeth?

With just a little bit of discernment, one can easily see that these locusts creatures being described are demonic being who have been down in the Abyss to be released for this very purpose.

If you are referring to 1Cor.15:52 regarding the "last trumpet," the "last trumpet" is sign when the church will be caught up and taken back to heaven, whereas the 5th trumpet is plague of God's wrath. The "last trumpet" and the "5th trumpet" have nothing in common, except for the word "trumpet," of which there are many different kinds with different purposes. If you will notice, there are seven trumpets in the trumpet judgments and none of them are the "last trumpet."

What does death being destroyed have to do with these being who come up from the Abyss?

This is true, death is the last enemy to be destroyed which takes place after the thousand year reign of Christ at the great white throne judgment:

"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."

With these types of locusts, I too agree these are not your everyday locusts. There are descriptions concerned if looking at it from a technological point of view, the descriptions given indicate some type of drone or robotic construct that has military applications. And like locusts, drones can be in swarms.

The reference to the tails and stingers like scorpions perhaps could be some kind of rear mounted weapons, instead of killing person, they get stunned or tasered.

Having the faces of men could be a reference to that these things will have some kind of camera lens. Looking at the cameras on some of these mobile phones, some have twin lenses, and gives the shape of a man's face with 2 eyes, the lens being the eyes.

The lions teeth reference, have a look at those big massive teeth, the shape of them, those 4 canine teeth, they could easily be a reference to some kind of missile.

Have to admit, the reference to the hair like women has got me confused, the only thing I can think of is the physical characteristics of a womans hair is that it is long (well generally speaking it is long), and if going by some kind of electronic construct, maybe the hair could be a reference to the wiring/cables??

IN the age we live in, these locusts could be a reference to a military robot weapon of some kind.

Yes it was the Roman army that destroyed the temple in 70AD

I say it was when the Jews murdered their savior.

I think they are helicopters. One can only imagine John describing this modern machinery, circa AD 95. Never having seen such things, he wrote in the book of Revelation on how these visions appeared to him. He describes helicopters as having the hair of a woman. Obviously, this pictures the rotor blades above it. Helicopters are noisy—he says they make the noise of many chariots. He also says they have the faces of men. You can plainly see the men in the chopper’s bubble windshield. John tells of these helicopters having some sort of stun gun that torments men but does not kill them. Again, this is technology we are developing today.

Actually at some point I once though if these could be reference to Apache gunships (or similar), but now with the advancements of robotics and artificial intelligence, there can be other possibilities.

Only time will tell what these things actually are.

Most of the trumpet events mimick the plagues in Egypt, including the locusts. However the last 3 trumpets are 3 'woes' and all three woes are essentially made up of supernatural events. So the locusts could really be spiritual beings rising out of hell or they could be natural locusts as they were in Egypt.

Just to somewhat back track to the image of the beast reference, there is something else that also should be considered, and this is in reference to this transhumanism agenda.

Now the reference to "give breath" could also translate as "give life" or "give a spirit" depending on the translation. Now if notice the word "give" depending on the context used, an alternative word used can be "transfer" (this can be confirmed in some dictionaries).

Now the reference to "breath/life"? How can one explain this? Is this a reference to a person's personaility? That special essence in us that makes us who we are and what makes us different from being just a plain robot or drone?

We are already seeing science and technology heading to the direction of convincing people to have their "personality" uploaded to a computer so said person can have eternal life. It is crazy, but there are people out there that believe this nonsense. Have these people ever heard of the "delete button".

So what if this reference to the image of the beast could actually be some kind of transfer of a individuals personality from one vessel to another? Check out the project 2045 initiative. Look at the descriptions of Avatar B, C and D. And avatar can be used as an alternative for image.

The big question is why is the image made in the first place?

Here is a interesting question, what could the reaction be if a person who was once human, all of a sudden wakes up and finds his brain encased in a robotic body like a cyberman (Doctor Who fans will know what the reference is) Could such a individual literally go insane?

I would offer. Locust in scripture represent the lies of the father of lies, described in unclean creatures

Scorpions or any poisonous creature in the bible are used to represent false doctrine under the god of this world as a false prophet.

In a parable below it shows I believe how the poison of false prophecy will not effect those in whom the Spirit of Christ dwells.

And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
.Acts 28:3-6

God shows us how false prophecy (poison) coming from false prophets does not effect the elect.

Psalm 58:4Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

Psalm 140:3 They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips. Selah.

Romans 3:13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.


This same description of the father of lies having no form of his own having faces of men. Men used are as a representative glory of God, and the uncovered hair of woman her, representative glory .The whole description is simply saying he is coming in his "full false glory" brining his poisonous doctrines of lies. And in the end of the matter only to have been defeated long ago.

The teeth of a lion are to represent the father of lies going around seeking to devour man with his lies. The lion can be used to represent a blessing also but not in this portion of Revelation .

Would make great Hollywood stuff.

I would think the buying and selling in respect to a mark would represent the gospel truth. We are to buy it and not sell it.

Freely we are given, freely we can forgive.

I would offer the image of the beast of the field.... is the image of mankind. Man with woman one creation. Created on the sixth day from the dust of the field. 666 would represent a unknown unrevealed number.. "if a man can number the dust of the earth"

666 represents natural unconverted man marked as a restless wanderer, the mark of Cain...... receiving no rest as if he could if he would of mixed faith in what he heard and believed God not seen. His heart remained hard all his life with no hope of rising to new life. . A punishment he declared to God as a punishment is greater than he can bear.

Genesis 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

666 would be a metaphor to represent dust, innumerable.(beyond numbering) representing the whole human race a number to represent the unseen mark, a person must be born again. .

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Six hundred threescore and six would appear to represent the innumerable.