Not By Works

calibob · Sep 19, 2018

humble thy self!

Shamah · Sep 19, 2018

Matt 24:21-2, "For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened."

Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”

Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded his trumpet, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

Revelation 11:15-19, "And the seventh messenger sounded, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”And the twenty-four elders sitting before יהוה on their thrones fell on their faces and worshipped יהוה, saying, “We give You thanks, O יהוה Strength Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is coming, because You have taken Your great power and reigned. And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets and to the set-apart ones, and to those who fear Your Name, small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth. And the Dwelling Place of יהוה was opened in the heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His Dwelling Place. And there came to be lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail.”

Revelation 19:11-16, "19:11, "And I saw the heaven opened, and there was a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Trustworthy and True, and in righteousness He judges and fights.a Footnote: aSee Act 10:42."19:12, "And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having a Name that had been written, which no one had perceived except Himself – b Footnote: bSee Rev 2:17."19:13, "and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood – and His Name is called: The Word of יהוה.c Footnote: cJoh 1:1 and Joh 1:14."19:14, "And the armies in the heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses."19:15, "And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations. And He shall shepherd them with a rod of iron. Psa 2:9 And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Ěl Shaddai."19:16, "And on His robe and on His thighd He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS. Footnote: d“thigh”, but possibly flag. See Thigh in the Explanatory Notes."

eternally-gratefull · Sep 19, 2018

dcontroversal said:

If they were ressurected. They have their glorified bodies, they can not sin, and they can not have children. They can not die, they can not get sick, and there will be no more sin, let alone another rebellion when satan is released.

You need to study more about the reign of christ, and how god punishes people who do not come worship how he rules with a rod of iron, . And how there is still death. Your excuse fails.. i read it and for you to judge me and say i did not. Well shame on you dude. Shame!

your attitude is getting nasty, if thats the way you wish to try to prove you point, go for it dude, i will be no part of it. Especially on a non salvic issue, i do not take that crap from anyone! I do not care who they are.

I am showing you a different view, if you disagree, thats fine, thats what happens in a discussion, and it is also so other people can see another view, and they can decide, people always disagree.. but they do not attack each other.. when people start attacing, then that deflects from the discussion, and prety much shows the one attacking can;t answer the questions or respons, You shoudl know that, thats what people do to you all the time when it comes to works theology and legalism.

dcontroversal · Sep 19, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

Kind of like your last three posts....haha-->> You are never gonna convince me....of course not...I guess I am on the same level.as Phart

eternally-gratefull said:

Do you even read or just start flapping...THE REMNANT OF ISRAEL GOES ALL THE WAY THRU IN THE FLESH AND REPOPULATE THE WASTE CITIES OF THE PLANET AND THERE SEEMS TO BE INDICATION THAT THE NATIONS THAT WERE KIND TO ISRAEL AT ONE TIME LIKE MY EXAMPLE OF EGYPT GO THRU AS WELL......man slow down and read......

dcontroversal · Sep 19, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

If they were ressurected. They have their glorified bodies, they can not sin, and they can not have children. They can not die, they can not get sick, and there will be no more sin, let alone another rebellion when satan is released.

You need to study more about the reign of christ, and how god punishes people who do not come worship how he rules with a rod of iron, . And how there is still death. Your excuse fails.. i read it and for you to judge me and say i did not. Well shame on you dude. Shame!

your attitude is getting nasty, if thats the way you wish to try to prove you point, go for it dude, i will be no part of it. Especially on a non salvic issue, i do not take that crap from anyone! I do not care who they are.

I am showing you a different view, if you disagree, thats fine, thats what happens in a discussion, and it is also so other people can see another view, and they can decide, people always disagree.. but they do not attack each other.. when people start attacing, then that deflects from the discussion, and prety much shows the one attacking can;t answer the questions or respons, You shoudl know that, thats what people do to you all the time when it comes to works theology and legalism.

you elevated it bro...just as you do with almost everyone you disagree with.....

dcontroversal · Sep 19, 2018

Shamah said:

Matt 24:21-2, "For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened."

Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”

Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded his trumpet, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

Revelation 11:15-19, "And the seventh messenger sounded, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”And the twenty-four elders sitting before יהוה on their thrones fell on their faces and worshipped יהוה, saying, “We give You thanks, O יהוה Strength Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is coming, because You have taken Your great power and reigned. And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets and to the set-apart ones, and to those who fear Your Name, small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth. And the Dwelling Place of יהוה was opened in the heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His Dwelling Place. And there came to be lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail.”

Revelation 19:11-16, "19:11, "And I saw the heaven opened, and there was a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Trustworthy and True, and in righteousness He judges and fights.a Footnote: aSee Act 10:42."19:12, "And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having a Name that had been written, which no one had perceived except Himself – b Footnote: bSee Rev 2:17."19:13, "and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood – and His Name is called: The Word of יהוה.c Footnote: cJoh 1:1 and Joh 1:14."19:14, "And the armies in the heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses."19:15, "And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations. And He shall shepherd them with a rod of iron. Psa 2:9 And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Ěl Shaddai."19:16, "And on His robe and on His thighd He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS. Footnote: d“thigh”, but possibly flag. See Thigh in the Explanatory Notes."

Clear as hey......

VCO · Sep 19, 2018

[QUOT3E="calibob, post: 3714250, member: 270740"]That's where a part of the problem lay. Many OSAS people would say people who would do as you have described weren't really saved at all aren't circumcised in the heart or the Holy Spirit wouldn't allow them to do as you say. Kneeling at a cross or an alter and just saying the sinners prayer doesn't save anyone. If it doesn't come from the heart it's dung.[/QUOTE]

Endoscopy said:

Going back to the early church creeds were created to define what a Christian must believe. Everything outside the creeds was to agree to disagree. Too many Christians don't want to agree to disagree. There is 2 groups of Christians that disagree on 5 points that they adhere to. One point is OSAS. Calvinists adhere to OSAS but Armenians oppose it.

Here is a list of the ancient creeds with date and short explanation.
. . .[/QUOTE]

YOU KNOW I every ONE of THOSE OF THE OPPOSITE VIEWPOINT has an OPINION about what OSAS actually MEANS and what We BELIEVE, and ALMOST EVERY ONE WITH AN OPINION IS TOTALLY WRONG. When are people going to learn to ASK US WHAT WE MEAN BY THAT PHRASE, instead of repeating the incredible LIES about our Beliefs.

YES I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE in OSAS, but it IS TOTALLY BIBLICAL, and NOT LIKE MOST ANTI-OSAS think we MEAN BY IT.

Then you Endoscopy bring up CREEDS that were Written when most of the world was illiterate. And think we still believe those confused opinions. Do you NOT THINK we have GROWN SPIRITUALLY at all since we NOW have our OWN BIBLES, and not a Latin version, CHAINED to the Pulpit. It is Incredible what SOME OF YOU ERRONEOUSLY BELIEVE about OSAS Beliefs.

As Far as I am concerned the Armenian and Calvinist ARGUMENTS are DEAD and has been for the past 40 years. Get Over It. I think MOST CHRISTIANS BELIEVE the TRUTH LIES SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE.

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, has NOTHING TO DO WITH lack of Obedience. It has to do with TAKING THESE VERSES LITERALLY:

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them [equals born again Believer], and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:4-9 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
6 Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens,
7 so that in the coming ages He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace through ⌊His⌋ kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

John 6:47 (HCSB)
47 “I assure you: Anyone who believes [.Born Again.] has eternal life. [.It is not eternal if you can lose it.]

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

SO WE BELIEVE THE BIBLE LITERALLY, . . . . . so what do you believe?

VCO · Sep 19, 2018

calibob said:

Saved by His blood ? ? ? Isn't that what this means"

Romans 5:9 (HCSB)
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.

VCO · Sep 19, 2018

calibob said:

For me it is DEFINITELY BEFORE the TRIBULATION will Begin, because is says "No man will know the Day or the Hour." When the Antichrist takes over the E.U., his very first order of Business will be to sign a Peace Treaty with ISRAEL, that will Be INTERNATIONAL NEWS, and the Bible says his days will be 7 years long. Using that date of the signing of the Peace Treaty, you can determine EXACTLY WHEN THE DAY WILL END, and CHRIST HIMSELF ENDS HIS RULE at the Second Coming, Zechariah chapter 14, if you want to read it. Therefore the ONLY a Pre-Tribulation, Calling Out of the BRIDE, can leave NO MAN WILL KNOW THE DAY OR THE HOUR.

VCO · Sep 19, 2018

dcontroversal said:

LOOK AT MY LAST POST ABOVE.

I can tell you do not use Commentaries.

He says He Gives Some Pastors, Teachers, and Evangelists, . . . . and YOU IGNORE THEM.

calibob · Sep 19, 2018

VCO said:

You didn't get the premise which was Peter couldn't have been saved by the blood before the crucifixon and he argued that peter was saved before the crucifixion so that lead to saved by grace by faith because blood had not yet been shed. Ok?

dcontroversal · Sep 19, 2018

VCO said:

No..I just ignore opinions that are not scriptural and your remark is idiotic and you for sure are no where near being my pastor...nor my teacher!

dcontroversal · Sep 19, 2018

VCO said:

Hahahha there is so much wrong with this post that it would take 10 pages of correction to address....a bunch of unfounded assumptions.....stick with salvation....at least you get that right

hahahhahaha

Disclaimer...I know you take what I say with a grain of salt...same with this post I presume....

VCO · Sep 20, 2018

calibob said:

Oh my. Do Not worry about not knowing who was Harold Camping. He was not worth remembering. He was a FALSE PROPHET that owned a Christian Radio Station in this country. He used a Formula for Calculate the Judgement Day would take Place. He needed money to get the word out and LOTS of his followers SOLD there homes, and gave him the Money, because they would not need them after May 21, 2011. He used the money to put up Billboards in several countries of the world:

NOTICE HE CALL JUDGEMENT DAY WAS THE RAPTURE.
SO HE WAS DEFINITELY POST-TRIBULATION BELIEVER.

He even had his followers out in traffic HOLDING UP HUGE SIGNS:

And was on Radio Preaching the Judgment Day would be May 21, 2011, almost daily.

MAY 21, 2011 CAME AND WENT, and the FALSE PROPHET WAS OUT OF BUSINESS.

I guess he too did not read this verse about the Rapture:

Mark 13:32-33 (HCSB)
32 “Now concerning that day or hour no one knows—neither the angels in heaven nor the Son—except the Father.
33 Watch! Be alert! For you don’t know when the time is ⌊coming⌋.

That day or hour that Jesus is talking about, certainly is the Calling Out of the Bride to go to the WEDDING. NO ONE KNOWS,
EXCEPT THE FATHER is simple. In a JEWISH Wedding, ONLY THE FATHER could DETERMINE when the NEW DWELLING PLACE
in the Father's House was FINISHED. He might inspect it several times before he FINALLY WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE,
"In it finished, Son, GO GET YOUR BRIDE." I think the new dwelling place He has build for us, is the New City Jerusalem in heaven.

VCO · Sep 20, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Now you, in my opinion, you are ALMOST treading on thin ice:

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
4 saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”

Matthew 25:13 (ESV)
13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

I guess you do not have an Invite to go to the Wedding in Heaven, how sad?

Only those who watch and wait for the BRIDEGROOM, get to go, when the Shout come from the Archangel;

Matthew 22:2-5 (HCSB)
2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding banquet for his son.
3 He sent out his slaves to summon those invited to the banquet, but they didn’t want to come.
4 Again, he sent out other slaves, and said, ‘Tell those who are invited: Look, I’ve prepared my dinner; my oxen and fattened cattle have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went away, one to his own farm, another to his business.

dcontroversal · Sep 20, 2018

VCO said:

Now you, in my opinion, you are ALMOST treading on thin ice:

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
4 saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”

Matthew 25:13 (ESV)
13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

I guess you do not have an Invite to go to the Wedding in Heaven, how sad?

Only those who watch and wait for the BRIDEGROOM, get to go, when the Shout come from the Archangel;

Matthew 22:2-5 (HCSB)
2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding banquet for his son.
3 He sent out his slaves to summon those invited to the banquet, but they didn’t want to come.
4 Again, he sent out other slaves, and said, ‘Tell those who are invited: Look, I’ve prepared my dinner; my oxen and fattened cattle have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went away, one to his own farm, another to his business.

Sure pal......

dcontroversal · Sep 20, 2018

VCO said:

Now you, in my opinion, you are ALMOST treading on thin ice:

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
4 saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”

Matthew 25:13 (ESV)
13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

I guess you do not have an Invite to go to the Wedding in Heaven, how sad?

Only those who watch and wait for the BRIDEGROOM, get to go, when the Shout come from the Archangel;

Matthew 22:2-5 (HCSB)
2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding banquet for his son.
3 He sent out his slaves to summon those invited to the banquet, but they didn’t want to come.
4 Again, he sent out other slaves, and said, ‘Tell those who are invited: Look, I’ve prepared my dinner; my oxen and fattened cattle have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went away, one to his own farm, another to his business.

You should pay attention to the parable you cite....the Gentiles are called guests at the wedding.....of course you will reject this truth as well....

VCO · Sep 20, 2018

calibob said:

When was the prophecy a DONE DEAL?

Isaiah 46:11 (NCV)
11 I am calling a man from the east to carry out my plan; he will come like a hawk from a country far away.
I will make what I have said come true; I will do what I have planned.

WHEN DID HE PLAN OUR SALVATION ? ? ?

Revelation 17:8 (NRSV)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will be amazed when they see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

Revelation 20:15 (TLB)
15 And if anyone’s name was not found recorded in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Isaiah 46:10 (HCSB)
10 I declare the end from the beginning, and from long ago what is not yet done, saying: My plan will take place, and I will do all My will.

Oh my, HIS PLAN WAS FOR HIS BLOOD TO PAY FOR SINS OF THE WORLD, Before the Foundation of the WORLD, and OUR NAMES WERE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE before the WORLD WAS FORMED. So HE chose us to BE SAVED before the world was FORMED, because HE Knew who would choose HIM back then too.

You see, you put GOD in box that we call TIME. HE DOES NOT FIT IN THAT BOX. He is not a created Being traveling through TIME. HE IS THE CREATOR OF TIME IT SELF. HE EXISTS OUTSIDE OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT.

VCO · Sep 20, 2018

dcontroversal said:

What I told you came from Zola Levitt in his program called A Christian LOVE STORY, and I supported it with other Messianic Christian Scholars who KNOW the JEWISH perspective on Scriptures that You did not even know.

dcontroversal · Sep 20, 2018

VCO said:

Brother a few points to ponder....

a. You don't know me nor the depth of what I know or don't know

b. Who cares what Zola has to say...I have seen him before and he is not always right

c. You have seen me post enough to know that I do not just whip belief systems out of a hat and that I am not unlearned in the scriptures

d. Your replies, as well as another poster, have been demeaning, baseless and dismissive of the above as well as of the fact that I am not some 18 year old seminary student....I have 4 years of seminary, 32 years of study, have filled in, preached revivals, taught at upwards of 30 churches, been on TV, radio, internet, written a 212 page book on the subject, and have without embellishment proclaimed to truth to millions....so please....do not treat me like I just came out of sunday school at age 7.....when by the way, I was doing 12th grade algebra, making solor models and studying atoms..............

Yeah I know....the above does not equate to being right and for the record...I am more than willing to admit error and or mold my belief when a greater understanding has come along or I am proven to be in error.

For the last time....I was raised believing in the imminent return, I believed it, defended it dogmatically and stood on it UNTIL I actually stsrted studying the bibke, being honest with the verbiage, word definitions, context etc......and in my VIEW the bible does not teach the imminent return of Christ...there are NUMEROUS EVENTS THAT MUST OCCUR FIRST....when those EVENTS HAVE TAKEN PLACE THEN AND ONLY THEN CAN WE LOOK up for his return!

Take it or leave it...no matter...I still consider you a saved brother in Christ!

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