Has this been fulfilled yet about burning the weapons?

I think the Palestinians usually use rocks or Rockets.
guns are probably impractical against the vastly superior Israeli military force.

I used to be highly pro-israel, but it's starting to look to me more like they are oppressors.

I think if Israel sees the Westbank as part of itself, then it would make sense to incorporate that into Israel. or forget about it and let the Palestinians have a state.

But holding a population of several million people in a kind of limbo is not right, in my opinion. It's not loving your neighbor as yourself.

Another possibility that some are maybe apprehensive to consider (for understandable reasons) is, those who currently occupy the land calling themselves Israel are not actually Israel, and so can't fulfill the portion of scripture you mentioned in the OP?

What if we were to start from the premise that the occupiers are gentiles. How would that change things?

Luke 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled

Zechariah 12:3
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

The burning the weapons then would be a future event?

Hello abcdef,

Do you actually think that when Ezekiel wrote the prophecy regarding the future wipe-out of Gog and Magog 2600 years ago, that Ezekiel would call the weapons laser guided missiles, automatic weapons, drones and whatever other technological weapons will be present? No! Ezekiel would not have anything to compare to what he was seeing in his vision. Therefore, the closest he would be to come to comparing those future weapons to would be to what was existing, i.e. swords, spears, bows, arrows, etc. He wouldn't have any comparison of the technology to be able to explain them.

Likewise, another good example of this would be when Jesus returns to end the age where the people will beat their swords and spears into plowshares and pruning hooks, respectively. When Isaiah received this information, he would have nothing to compare to the technological weapons that we have today. Therefore, they are listed as swords, spears, bows and arrows, which are representing weapons of war.

This event is still future, as the world has not seen God alone wipe out five sixth of the Gog, Magog, tubal, Meshech, Put, Gomer and the rest.

Further more, one of the purposes of this event will be for the following:

"I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’

God has not single handedly, by His own power, wiped out five sixths of Gog, Magog and their hordes so that that nations know that God is the One who was responsible. It's still a future event.

Lots of good points there

I think that if Israel is a Jewish Nation, and the people of God, then it can only Survive by following God's way, which is to love your neighbor as yourself, regardless of what other nations or influences there are. Israel clearly is not treating the populations of the occupied territories that way, in my opinion.

If his real is not the people of God, not a Jewish Nation, then it really doesn't matter if they rise or fall, they are just like any other Nation.

I agree, but how can Israel invite their neighbors in, when they will be killed? You mean just give up fighting back and let those people destroy them?

Get a map, look at the size of Israel. Then look at the size of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and others. Why would so many nations, of such great size, hate so greatly, a tiny nation, half the size of the Netherlands or Belgium?

To the other nations, it doesn't matter what Israel does, their intent is to kill Israel and take Jerusalem, it is their religion. They will not stop until Israel is destroyed. Powers across the Middle East and across the planet are building towards that end.

To prove that the God of Israel is no God and to prove that their religion is the true one.




True, but,

Can a nation exist against the will of God? (no)

If a nation cannot exist against the will of God, then this Israel must exist by the will of God.

If this Israel exists by the will of God, will we say that it exists by chance? Or by the exclusive will of men?
--
I think that no one will ever prove one way or the other that the people in Israel are actually descendants of Jacob or not. Maybe if they found the bones of Jacob and did DNA tests.

But it will be a matter of faith, just like many other things. And where there is faith, there will also be doubt casters, those who cast doubt on things. That's OK though, they have their place too, and sometimes they are right.

I believe that this Israel is the fulfillment of prophecies.

--------

Sounds like at some point then technology will have to go backwards for some reason similar to how it did in the Middle Ages in order for it to make sense to attack Israel with bows and arrows and shields.

Yeah, in the same vein as the following verse.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

So precept upon precept, we can link your passage from Ezekiel 39 and the above passage together and see that upon burning the weapons the nations will not war anymore. We know this hasn't happened yet.

I agree, but how can Israel invite their neighbors in, when they will be killed? You mean just give up fighting back and let those people destroy them?

Get a map, look at the size of Israel. Then look at the size of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and others. Why would so many nations, of such great size, hate so greatly, a tiny nation, half the size of the Netherlands or Belgium?

To the other nations, it doesn't matter what Israel does, their intent is to kill Israel and take Jerusalem, it is their religion. They will not stop until Israel is destroyed. Powers across the Middle East and across the planet are building towards that end.

To prove that the God of Israel is no God and to prove that their religion is the true one.




True, but,

Can a nation exist against the will of God? (no)

If a nation cannot exist against the will of God, then this Israel must exist by the will of God.

If this Israel exists by the will of God, will we say that it exists by chance? Or by the exclusive will of men?
--
I think that no one will ever prove one way or the other that the people in Israel are actually descendants of Jacob or not. Maybe if they found the bones of Jacob and did DNA tests.

But it will be a matter of faith, just like many other things. And where there is faith, there will also be doubt casters, those who cast doubt on things. That's OK though, they have their place too, and sometimes they are right.

I believe that this Israel is the fulfillment of prophecies.

--------

That's a good point.

One corollary of that approach is that prophetic scripture becomes loose. It's pretty hard to tell if something has been fulfilled or not, or what it is that will actually happen when it is fulfilled.

9 “ ‘ “At that time those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and light a fire. They will use it to burn up the weapons. That includes small and large shields. It also includes bows and arrows, war clubs and spears. It will take seven years to burn all of them up. 10 People will not gather wood from the fields. They will not cut down the forests. Instead, they will burn the weapons. And they will rob those who robbed them. They will steal from those who stole from them,” announces the Lord and King.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+39&version=NIRV

so I was listening to a podcast of this section while I was out walking this morning and I realized that this passage must have already been fulfilled,
or it's highly symbolic,
or there will be some drastic reduction of technology in the future.

I say that because today we would not burn the weapons of warfare, most of which would not burn anyways, and especially not burn them for cooking fires which seems to be the implication above.

Or maybe there's another option?

Yeah that's true. And it may be on purpose. Scripture says if Satan knew the plan that he wouldn't have crucified Christ, so I assume a level of sealing is necessary from enemies of the faith...encrypted like Christ's parables are.

I'm reminded of Christ still having to reveal the scriptures to his disciples even after his resurrection showing how he fulfilled them. So they still had no clue.

...but with that said...

Christ also said "seek and you will find". He also likened the kingdom to a hidden treasure. There's also a proverb that says it's the glory of kings to seek out a matter that the living God conceals.

So I think, while prophecy may be loose, Yah is looking those who will persevere to understand...like Daniel did with the 70 year prophecy in the book of Jeremiah. He was then greeted by an angel who explained it.

I could see that. If that's the case, then a person who has an unsealed version understanding of end times prophecy, it probably wouldn't be the right thing to do to post that on an internet Forum like this where Satan and his minions could read it.

Lol well there's so much deception and misinformation today that i doubt it would be recognized as truth by those minions. But I think it's still the right thing to do to share. You'd represent the role of watchman.

And like Ezekiel says, if you're a watchman and don't sound the warning you could be called to give an account. So I think we can trust that "to those who have ears to hear" will hear while it flies over the heads of the rest as intended.

Right, we can be like a Watchman for other humans. I thought you meant that end times prophecy was sealed from Satan, the same way that prophecy about the Plan of Salvation was sealed from Satan.

Yeah I did. I didn't intend to imply sealing is permanent or should continue, I was just saying that encryption from enemies was its purpose. Yah actually gave a timeframe to Daniel for the stealing of his vision for example (i.e. "till the time of the end").

The very fact that we're starting to understand things means the Father has started unsealing. I'm sure Satan's crew now knows what Christ's death was all about. In the same way, prophecy may be unsealing now specifically because it can't be prevented anymore, having served its intended purpose.

Are we definitely living in the time of the end? I ask that because several writers in the New Testament say that they were living in the last days.

What leads you to believe that we are in the time of the end? What prophecies do you believe have been unsealed in recent times?

Wow that's a loaded question. How much time you got lol? I'll try to be brief.

Yes I believe both they were, and that we are, living in the last days. I believe the last days span the 2000 years since Christ has been in heaven. The last days of man's week.

----

It appears Yah has been following creation week to the very millennium based on 2 Peter 3:8 and Psalm 90:4 (I posted a few details here: https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-the-meaning-of-hebrews-4.166450/post-3691334), continuing through to the Messiah's first appearance in the 4th millennium, fulfilling the Sun's appearance on the 4th day of creation. Christ is the "Sun of Righteousness" (Malachi 4:2). {I can provide historic proof he was born in the 4th millennium if you like, but skipped it for brevity.}

Building on the pattern, the themes of the 5th and 6th days of creation week are: beasts of the Sea and beasts of the Earth (respectively) that were created after the 4th day. And interestingly enough Revelation 13 prophesies beasts rising from the same areas: one from the Sea and another from the Earth. What are the odds? These two events are then followed by a reign of Christ that just so happens to span a millennium of all lengths of time.

So if we follow the pattern laid out for creation week - to the very millennium - then the last (nearly) 2000 years since Christ ascended were days 5 and 6 of the last days of man's week...and the pending millennium reign of Christ will be day 7; the Lord's day of rest ("The Day of the Lord"; The Sabbath).

This means the NT writers were indeed living in the last days, suffering through the appearance/reign of the beast of the sea in the 5th millennium (roughly 1-1000 CE, give or take several years; the little horn of the beast of the sea changed our measurement of time [Daniel 7:25] so it's hard to be exact). It then follows that we were personally born at the tail end of the 6th millennium (roughly 1001-2000 CE) and currently live during the time when both the beast of the sea and beast of the earth exist, with the beast of the earth currently reigning over the world as Revelation 13 said it would.

At present, we're currently waiting for the harvest by Christ when he will gather true Israel (both natural and wild branches) scattered around the world and bring them into the kingdom (the same event detailed in Daniel 7:13-14, 18, 27 = Matthew 24:28-30 = Luke 21:25-27 = Revelation 14:14 = Ezekiel 36:21-25 = Jeremiah 30:8-11 and more).

----

I tried to be a brief as possible so I didn't reference historic events for the 5th and 6th millennia. But I'm happy to share how they were/are being fulfilled in more detail if you want.

Looking at your other post that you linked to, it looks like the first day of creation, the separating of light from dark is Adam being separated from the garden, or God? When Adam and Eve eat the fruit, that's when their eyes are opened. In other words, more light, not being separated from light. Also it says that God created light in the beginning, so if light corresponds to the Garden of Eden, then that means the Garden of Eden was created in the beginning. But Genesis chapter 2 says that God planted the garden on an already existing Earth. It seems like quite a stretch to say that the first day of creation corresponds to Adam and Eve being sent from the garden.

But of course if one wants to take a loose version of scripture, then I'm sure there are events from each 1,000 year period That can in some way fit with what is being described in the day of creation.

Another idea if we want to find versions of the days of creation in history is removing cain to a different area from the other parts of his family, that could be separating the light from the dark.

Sure some may argue Adam & Eve were more "illuminated" when they were convinced to sin against Yah by satan, but I don't think we'd make that argument as Christians. That's some other group's argument. Aside from that, I think we can agree that in the first millennium of man mankind was separated from Yah's personal presence (until Christ could restore mankind). Light and dark are scripturally tied to good and evil (Isaiah 45:7). And then we literally have a tree of knowing good and evil in the first story.

In terms of loose version; like we alluded to earlier there's nothing necessarily wrong with loose...but the major, core events that move the bible's story of redemption along are anything but loose right? Because without them mankind's redemption doesn't progress?

I'm by no means trying to get you to believe me, but if we take all of the chronology recorded in the pages of scripture and count it out (births; deaths; beginning and ending of reigns, etc, with year 1 of mankind being year 1 of Adam so year 930 of mankind is year 930 of Adam...and this takes a lot of patience for anyone read this post who's interesting in doing it), we see that each of the stories occur in the corresponding millennium that just so happens to relate to the theme of the particular creation day:

1) Adam (separation)
2) Noah (water)
3) Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (promised seeds)
4) Israel's Patriarchs, Kings, Christ (Sun, moon, stars)

And in each of these events Yah either declared what he would do or performed an action that corresponded to what he said and did in Creation week.

You can't get more exact than recorded chronology. Unfortunately, the chronology ends with the Acts of the Apostles..but thankfully we have the last 2000 years of recorded human history to continue on. And with Yah being true to the pattern he appears to be following for each event above, it seems reasonable to conclude that the last days of creation week have been and will be fulfilled in similar fashion; in the last millennia mankind currently has been living through.

5) Antichrist kingdom (Beast of the Sea)
6) False Prophet kingdom (Beast of the Earth)
7) Christ's 1000 year Reign (Sabbath)

----

But like I said earlier, it's one of those things where you put what you've been shown out there and it wouldn't necessarily alert satan's minions because of all the other information that's also floating out there. and if it speaks to someone then that's who it was for.